0132: The Importance of Innovative Healthcare Solutions with Tom Lindsay

Intro [0:00]

EA Interviews Episode 132. Inspiration, transformation, success stories, and the Imperfect Action Round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview. 

Mario Fachini [0:13]

Ladies and gentlemen, I’m excited to have Tom Lindsay here today. Because we have a problem in the healthcare industry. And there are so many small businesses that don’t have it, don’t know what to do, don’t know where to start. And if they do start, get caught up in the process, and just get lost. So I’m excited to have Tom Lindsay here. He’s going to be sharing with you right after we thank our sponsor. 

SPONSOR Pipedrive [0:39]

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Mario Fachini [0:54]

Here he is ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Tom, Lindsay. Tom, how are you doing today?

Tom Lindsay [0:58]

I’m doing fantastic. Thanks, Mario. How are you? 

Mario Fachini [1:01]

I’m feeling great. And I’m excited to learn myself because this is such a prevalent problem we have here in the healthcare industry and I know I’ve been confused by it the past. So how did you even get into it? And how are you really helping people? 

Tom Lindsay [1:14]

Well, I’ve always sort of been in this space. I got started in my career back in 1993 in what’s called the PEO industry or Professional Employer Organization industry. So we went into business to help small and midsize employers be better employers. And let them outsource all those functions to us. And so part of that was providing employee benefits. So we’ve always provided group health benefits to small and midsized employers throughout my career. But the big change for me came in 2016 when I sold my shares and resigned from the company that I had cofounded in 2004. And I became an employer of three, basically, at that point. I started a sales organization to sell the services that I’ve previously provided as the COO and CEO. And I didn’t have access to health care at that point. I lost my – you know, I had COBRA from my previous job. But the premium was super expensive. And starting a new venture, my income wasn’t what it used to be. And I couldn’t find affordable coverage. I was all of a sudden kind of in this new small group space. And it wasn’t long when I let my employees go and just became a sole proprietor, in essence, a one man band. And then it was impossible. 

Mario Fachini [2:49]

How did that make you feel when you had, let’s say, a different type – I don’t want to say lifestyle – but I mean for all intents and purposes, you had a different setting in your previous job and now you’re doing it on your own and it was a drastic shift. How did that make you feel? 

Tom Lindsay [3:06]

Sure. Well, it was a big change for me. I was scared. I had always been the CEO. I had lots of employees. And I look at it like sort of finding out that you were being – you’ve been adopted. Like, all of a sudden, I’m like, “Well, who am I? I’m not the COO anymore of the company that I cofounded. Who am I?” It’s like an identity crisis. And it was scary to be out on my own without a lot of capital and huge cash flow and health insurance, which is one of the problems that I had. But it turned out to be actually the biggest problem that I had. 

Mario Fachini [3:58]

Do you find that certain industries are more concerned about it than others? 

Tom Lindsay [4:05]

About healthcare? 

Mario Fachini [4:07]

Yes. 

Tom Lindsay [4:08]

For sure. You know, kind of the white collar industry is more concerned with healthcare than blue collar in general. Lower paid employees, I think, have just come to the realization that they’re resigned to the fact that they can’t afford the benefits. And so they typically just go without. 

Mario Fachini [4:33]

Life isn’t what it was back in the – Jesus, it’s hard to believe – almost 100 years ago. 

Tom Lindsay [4:42]

Yeah. And even ten years ago. I mean, ten years ago, healthcare was much more affordable than it is today. 

Mario Fachini [4:48]

What do you think constitutes the changes that – I mean, we’re talking apples and oranges business from 10, 20, 30, 50, 70 years ago to what’s going on now. What do you think constituted that change? Was there one or was it a small progression? 

Tom Lindsay [5:09]

It’s kind of been a progression. But there’s two things I would say. One is just the consolidation of the healthcare industry has reduced competition and led to a situation where the prices just keep rising, the benefits get worse, and there isn’t a lot of – there aren’t any options. We just had to suck it up and live with it. The other thing is the Affordable Care Act didn’t make things affordable. In fact, it has made things less affordable. Because one of the mandates is that insurance companies have to spend at least 80 percent of the premium on benefits which means the other 20 percent is what they used to pay operating expenses and make a profit. Well, that might sound great. But what happens when they want to increase their profit? The only way they can do it is not by really reducing costs, it’s by increasing premium. So you increase premium and then you make a bigger slice of the pie. And you can do that without actually adding new customers, right? 

Mario Fachini [6:27]

It’s true. It’s true. I know Jay Abraham said there’s only real really three ways to increase a business and it’s increase the cost per transaction – cost per transaction, the frequency of which they’re buying, and like you said, the overall cost for the thing. And that’s it. I mean, it’s usually comes down to, do you want to go get more customers or do you just want to charge the ones you have more? 

Tom Lindsay [6:56]

Exactly. And that’s what’s been happening in Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act incentivized the insurance companies to charge more. To not really care about how much the premium is or how much the services are. Because you just charge premium. You charge the premium that you need to charge in order to make your margin. And the more you charge, the more you make. 

Mario Fachini [7:22]

I know what question I’m going to ask you for the wheel of whatever. It’s going to be a good one. So we’re in agreement that there’s problems with the healthcare industry. And I’m glad you’re on the side of helping the small business owners and entrepreneurs that are out there. Tell me, what are some of the biggest success stories and transformations you’ve been able to give someone? You know, they were in a horrible spot before and then they got in touch with you. Where are they at now? 

Tom Lindsay [7:49]

Yeah, there’s one particular individual who recently we helped who had just been going without. And now, because of what we’ve been providing, a medical cost sharing arrangement, they have access to affordable healthcare. And it’s essentially 60 percent less than what they have to pay to get the equivalent in health insurance. Plus – and that’s just for the monthly payment, right? Plus, the out of pocket expense is less through the medical cost sharing arrangement versus the equivalent in an insurance policy. So there’s lots of stories like that that we have. 

I, myself, I’m one of those stories where when I left my job, I went without for almost a year. Because I couldn’t find anything that was affordable. I went to the exchange and it’s ridiculous what’s available. What you get for the cost is just a terrible value. And it wasn’t until my new business partners introduced me to this medical cost sharing concept that I was able then to get

affordable health care. 

Mario Fachini [9:18]

Excellent. 

Tom Lindsay [9:21]

If I can tell you – I’m sorry – 

Mario Fachini [9:23]

Go ahead. 

Tom Lindsay [9:24]

So one of my good friends is a lawyer. He has a law firm, about 13 employees. Their premium for family coverage was going up to $2,500 at a renewal. And we came in and were able to lower that cost to around 800. So from $2,500 for family to 800 a month. That’s a lot of money. And it allowed them to pay the full cost of the healthcare and save the employees from having to pay any portion of it themselves. 

Mario Fachini [10:07]

Yeah. And you’re not just talking a monthly one time basis, that’s to $17,000 to 20,000 annualized. 

Tom Lindsay [10:14]

Yeah. That’s a lot. I’m not that quick with the math but it’s a lot. 

Mario Fachini [10:20]

That’s huge. That’s real big. Because what do you think that means to the small business owner? 

Tom Lindsay [10:29]

Well, it’s the difference between – it can be the difference between surviving and not surviving. It can be the difference between growing your business or not growing your business. Because you can take that money and reinvest it in the company into marketing, into improving the product or service that you deliver to your clients. I mean, it’s life changing. 

Mario Fachini [10:53]

I was thinking of exactly that. I mean, it’s just astonishing because a lot of people don’t realize what entrepreneurs go through. And you’re absolutely right, because it could be a make or break moment. Or it could be a, “Hey, we’re going to grow this quarter or not moment.” I mean, it’s so advantageous no matter how much it is. And you’re able to do that for people. That’s the cool part. So I don’t want to get into the political side of this. But what do you think is going to happen over the next five or ten years, maybe 50? Do you ever see it going back to the way it was where everyone’s got benefits, everyone’s got everything covered? And it’s basically the uptick after World War II where companies were just booming left and right and we had about 50 years of that. 

Tom Lindsay [11:50]

Well, I can definitely see it going to single payer with the attitudes that we have among the new wave of politicians and the youth, who seem to think that socialism is a great idea in a viable economic system. So I can see us going single payer at some point in the not too distant future, which won’t be a good thing. In fact, I was just reading an article yesterday by the Foundation for Economic Education about a doctor who was working for a government funded clinic through a contract and had to spend four years in that position. And when she started off in the job feeling like, “Okay. This is my civic duty. This is how I give back to the community. I take this position in a rural [inaudible [00:13:06] that’s government funded. And then I can last for that.” Well, it turns out that that experience was so horrible for her as a physician. And she could see how horrible it was for the patients as well. Because of all the bureaucracy, the paperwork, just the administrative nightmare. Because it’s being run by non-physicians. And it was all about compliance with regulation and not about patient care or even the physicians. Their own mental health and their own wellbeing. And so that the title of the article is something like, Why I now think government is not the solution to healthcare to the healthcare problem. So hopefully, that doesn’t happen. Hopefully, the marketplace takes care of solving the problem. And we’re definitely moving in that direction. There’s a lot of change of foot. I mean, you look at just what Amazon and JP Morgan and what they’re doing with Berkshire Hathaway and that partnership with Haven. And you look at what Amazon’s doing on their own and you look at what Walmart’s doing, there’s a lot happening that – and things like this like medical cost sharing. It’s helping to solve the health insurance affordability dilemma. But what we have to do is eliminate the middlemen in the in the system who are causing costs to rise and who are not incentivized in any way to make things less expensive for us. Hopefully, that can happen and mitigate the need or obviate the need for government to continue to try and solve the problem. 

Mario Fachini[15:17]

Well, I think there’s a lot of people that are helping, like yourself, which is appreciated and people are smarter now than ever with quicker access than ever to anything. And I think it’s a good thing. Because there’s going to be a lot less situations where people – the days of only a single TV was the only news information and only one person control that, I mean, it’s one of the things that people are upset about is – and I still laugh about it. The news is like, coming up at [6:00]. You’re going to not want to miss this. Someone from American Idol just updated their Instagram. I’m like, that was three hours ago. It’s not even news. We are the news now. And and I think that’s very empowering. 

Tom Lindsay [16:06]

Definitely. It is. And we don’t need government like we necessarily needed them without the information, without the internet. Because we have access to information. You can get price transparency now if you look for it and ask. But we don’t need to wait for Congress to pass a law. And actually, in this case, it’s the Trump administration executive order requiring the health and human services to require hospitals to list – make [inaudible [00:16:38] transparent. That’s happening in 2021, which is great. But you don’t have to wait for that. It’s available now. And what we need to do is we need to have a cultural change as consumers. We need to get engaged in the process instead of just being these drones. We go to work. Our employer provides health care. We think about it one time at the enrollment – open enrollment. And we forget about it until we have to go to use it. And then somehow we think, you know, we expect everything’s just going to get paid for. You don’t really learn about the benefit design or what’s covered and what’s not covered until you go to use it. And we’re just totally disengaged. And we need to become engaged healthcare consumers like Dr. Josh Luke talks about in his book called Health Wealth For You, which is an excellent book. And that’s what’s going to cause change is by getting engaged as consumers. And like you said, that information is now available for us to do because of the internet and technology. 

Mario Fachini [17:46]

So with your theme of breaking free of from the matrix, what would you say to Expert Authority World are like three things they should consider if someone has no idea about health care? Or they learned about it five years ago or something, going in, if someone wants to get it today, this week, this month, what are three things or more? What should they consider going into it and be asking? What are some things you can empower them with? 

Tom Lindsay [18:15]

So if you’re a small – let’s say you’re an entrepreneur. You’re self-employed. You only have a couple of choices, you can go to the exchange and it’s open enrollment now on the exchange. So you can go look there. You can look for an association policy, where if you have two or three, or four employees, you can go to an insurance agent or broker and have them look in the fully insured small group market. The result of those efforts are going to be the same. You’re going to find super expensive, terrible benefits, and you’re just going to get frustrated. So the next thing you should do is – or if you believe me, you can just skip all that and just go look for a medical cost sharing or health sharing arrangement to join and be a part of. Now, it doesn’t work for everyone because they have pre-existing exclusions. Typically, for the first three years, there’s limited reimbursement for expenses related to a pre-existing condition. So it may or may not work. It depends on the severity of the pre-existing condition and the amount of treatment that you’re required for it. If you do have a situation like that, then the exchange is your best bet because you can’t be denied coverage so that’s what I would say. I would — you know, maybe you’ve already gone out and looked at what’s available in the insurance realm. And now you take a look at what’s available in the non-insurance medical cost sharing or health sharing world. 

Mario Fachini [20:07]

I appreciate you for sharing because I know there are people that are just like, “I have no clue. I don’t care. But I should probably do something.” That’s who we want to help. 

Tom Lindsay [20:17]

Yeah. I mean, going without any kind of access to health care can be dangerous. I mean, if you’re young and you don’t have any assets and something significant happen and you file bankruptcy, I mean, it’s not the end of the world, right? But as you get married and you start having children, you start to gain some wealth, you want to protect that. And one of the ways to protect it is to not go without either health insurance – 

Mario Fachini [20:58]

Not have to go use it all on Dr. Billard too. 

Tom Lindsay [21:03]

Exactly. 

Mario Fachini [21:06]

You’re 17. If need be. But we hope that doesn’t happen to anyone if they don’t need it. But I appreciate you for what you’re saying, because everyone needs to be knowing this. And I know entrepreneurs. And I’m glad there’s experts like you that are available to help people that aren’t focused on it. 

Tom Lindsay [21:28]

Thank you. 

Mario Fachini [21:30]

And that was a pretty good way of saying it. I stayed on target, yay. We like to focus on what we like to focus on. And the rest is just – I’m sure you’ve experienced that too, right?. You just want to do what you’re good at. And the rest is whatever. 

Tom Lindsay [21:47]

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that’s why people go into business because they’re passionate about a particular thing or good at a particular service. That’s what they go to business to do. It’s not to worry about employees and compliance with regulations and buying health insurance. All that is just noise in the system that distracts you from doing what you set out to do. But [inaudible [00:22:21] – 

Mario Fachini [22:22]

But like you said you don’t want to wait until the day you need it and be going, “I never looked at this. This kind of sucks.” 

Tom Lindsay [22:28]

Yeah. Exactly. 

Mario Fachini [22:31]

Like, “I’m paying how much for it?” 

Tom Lindsay [22:34]

Yeah. That’s why it’s so hard as such – that’s a good – I mean, it’s such a hard pill to swallow, right? You’re like, “I’m healthy and I’m paying $1,500 a month for family coverage. And I never go to the doctor.” And millions of people are in that situation even when you do have coverage. Then when you do need to use it, you still have to pay. You got copays and deductibles and coinsurance. And it’s like, “What am I paying for?” It’s a terrible [inaudible [00:23:12]. That’s basically what it boils down to. And this has happened over the last ten years where premiums have skyrocketed. The deductibles have gone up. But wages have been fairly flat. And it’s just not keeping up. So every year, it’s more and more and more of your take home pay going towards medical care. And there was a report that said that – I think it was by 2030, millennials will end up having spending 50 percent of their of their take home pay on health care. Which that’s not sustainable. 

Mario Fachini [23:55]

So there are even T’s factor in taxes and all the other expenses? 

Tom Lindsay [24:01]

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, what’s left? 

Mario Fachini [24:04]

It’s laughable now until it happens. 

Tom Lindsay [24:08]

Yeah. But you can see we’re on the trajectory for that to happen. This is not hyperbole. This isn’t hypothetical. This is the way things are moving. So that’s why health – medical cost sharing and health sharing has taken off. Since the passage of the Affordable Care Act, it has grown significantly. There’s something like one-and-a-half million participants in these noninsurance alternatives. And there’s billions of dollars every year being shared among the various – and sharing is the terms that they use to – because you can’t use insurance terminology. So you can’t say claim or plan or benefit or premium. So that’s why there’s this other set of terms. Like, share and sharing and – 

Mario Fachini [25:16]

I just love red tape. It makes everything so much easier and clear. 

Tom Lindsay [25:20]

Yeah. That’s back to our government discussion. 

Mario Fachini [25:24]

It reminds me of one of my favorite comedians, Chris Rock. He goes and stuff calling it insurance. Shouldn’t we call it in case shh? He goes, “And in case shh doesn’t happen, shouldn’t I get my money back?” Like, that’s true. I was like, “Well, maybe we should rename it.” I mean, perfect opportunity if they already are. And I mean, well, I appreciate you for helping us navigate through some of this. We’re going to thank our sponsor and come back for the Imperfect Action Round. Oh, you know what? No, we’re not. I’m going to ask you the wheel of whatever question first, then we’re going to thank our sponsor, then come back for the Imperfect Action Round. So I actually have a wheel that will be on the show. I’m going to imaginary spin it right here. And it just landed on the question you gave me 12 minutes ago. 

Tom Lindsay [26:19]

Nice.

Mario Fachini [26:21]

If you were in charge of the insurance industry and or president and or whatever you need to be to make something like this happen, what do you think is a winning solution that we haven’t seen before? 

Tom Lindsay [26:36]

Wow. That’s an awesome question. So let’s see, if I were president. The problem with being president is there’s not a lot you can do because it takes an act of Congress and it takes 

legislation that has to be passed by the House and Senate in order to really affect change. 

Mario Fachini [27:00]

Both sides will love you. So that’ll be easy. 

Tom Lindsay [27:02]

You’ll be one and done if you even make it. 

Tom Lindsay [27:07]

But what the Trump administration has just done is pretty monumental with the price transparency rule that they had the Health and Human Services pass or create, which is taking effect in 2021, where now hospitals have to publish their prices. That’s been a huge part of the problem is that, nobody knows. Even employers who have self-funded plans that the insurance companies administer, they don’t even know how much the services cost because those negotiations between the insurance company who administers the plan for them and the providers is all done confidentially. And you as an employer can’t even get access to that. So you don’t know. You have to wait and see. It’s like passing the Affordable Care Act when Pelosi said, “Oh, we got to pass it so that we could read it so that we can know what’s in it.” That’s how health care has been from a pricing standpoint. There’s zero transparency up to this point. And so I guess back to your question, the long winded answer to your question of what would I do as president, at least that’s how I took the question. I think just pulling back on doing more to allow private access to health care. Like – oh, well, actually, now that we’re talking – I know what I’m talking. I know what I would do. I would allow medical cost sharing and health sharing members, people who participate in these noninsurance programs, to use health savings accounts to pay for the monthly membership fees for those. That would be a huge help because then you could take money, put it into a health savings account, which is a tax free account. And then use that money to pay for this noninsurance alternative, which is having a huge impact on helping lots of people get healthcare. 

Mario Fachini [29:35]

Interesting. I like that and I’ve never heard of that. It’s reminded me of like an IRA or something where you’re putting into it and it’s also the tax free but it’s for medical. 

Tom Lindsay [29:46]

Yeah. They’re great vehicles. Health savings accounts are great little vehicles. But right now they can only be used to pay for insurance policy premiums. Another non-reimbursed or non-paid health expenses that you incur. So you can’t use that money to pay for your membership fees in a health sharing or medical cost sharing arrangement. 

Mario Fachini [30:16]

Maybe it’ll get pass them in the next few years or five or ten. 

Tom Lindsay [30:19]

It’s being worked on. So hopefully. 

Mario Fachini [30:22]

Excellent. Well, I appreciate the insight. Now, we’re going to thank our sponsor and we’ll be right back for the Imperfect Action Round. 

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Mario Fachini [31:32]

And we are back for the Imperfect Action Round. Tom, are you ready to take imperfect action? 

Tom Lindsay [31:37]

Yep, let’s do it. 

Mario Fachini [31:39]

Sixty second answers rapid fire. First one, what in your experience is the fastest path to the cash? 

Tom Lindsay [31:48]

The fastest path to the cash.

Mario Fachini [31:51]

As an entrepreneur what can another entrepreneur do? 

Tom Lindsay [31:55]

Well, that would be to build a list and to produce an information product that you can then sell to that list. And that would be the quickest route in my opinion. 

Mario Fachini [32:14]

Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way they can fix it? 

Tom Lindsay [32:23]

Well, my prospects typically aren’t outsourcing to the right professionals. They’re not willing to spend the money that it takes to get the expert help that would really make a huge difference in their business in a relatively short period of time. 

Mario Fachini [32:50]

Excellent. Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value? 

Tom Lindsay [32:58]

To keep providing them with the things that they need and to keep communicating with them and knowing – getting to know them and to understand what it is that they need so that you can keep providing it and retain them. 

Mario Fachini [33:16]

Excellent. You mentioned one earlier. You can add a couple more if you want now. But what are some books that you would recommend Expert Authority World? 

Tom Lindsay [33:30]

Like I talked about, Health Wealth For You from Dr. Josh Luke. Also a book called The price We Pay by Dr. Marty Makary. And actually another book – actually, I have it right here. It’s called Big Medicine by Dr. Elena George. Those are amazing books that will really open your eyes to what’s going on in the healthcare world. 

Mario Fachini [33:59]

Excellent. Well, I appreciate everything you’ve shared with us today. And where would you like people to learn more about you? 

Tom Lindsay [34:06]

Go to GotPureHealth.com. That’s G-O-TPureHealth.com. You can also find me on LinkedIn under Thomas Rock Lindsay. So those are be the two best places. We’re also on Facebook, Got Pure Health on Facebook. 

Mario Fachini [34:29]

Excellent. Well, it’s been an absolute pleasure. And I thank you again for sharing with Expert Authority World. 

Tom Lindsay [34:35]

Thanks for having me. 

Mario Fachini [34:38]

All right. Expert Authority World, we have another great episode. I’ll see you on tomorrow’s Have a great day. God bless. 

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www.EAInterviews.com [35:15]

Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven’t done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.