0141: Maximizing Amazon Sales & Optimizing Conversion Rates with CEO of OrcaPacific John Ghiorso

Intro [0:00]

EA Interviews Episode 141. Inspiration, transformation, success stories, and the Imperfect Action Round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview. 

Mario Fachini [0:13]

Have you heard of a little tiny company that’s not in the Congo, not in Switzerland, but it’s in the Amazon? That was clever, huh? I know you have. I just got a package from them today. And that is why I’m excited to learn more about how they work and how you can profit from them in your business. I have none other than the CEO and founder of Orca Pacific here, John Ghiorso. And he specializes in helping companies maximize sales and increase their visibility and profits with Amazon. I’m going to bring him up right after we thank our sponsor. 

SPONSOR – Acorns [0:48]

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Mario Fachini [1:05]

Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. John Ghiorso.  John, how are you doing today? 

John Ghiorso [1:10]

Hey, good, Mario. How are you? 

Mario Fachini [1:12]

I’m feeling great. I’m excited to learn what you know. Because I have not met many people that do what you do. So why don’t you take us to the beginning? What inspired you to even start this? 

John Ghiorso [1:23]

Yeah. So I’ve been doing this about 12 years. It was originally a small kind of spin off part of a family company that I pretty quickly turned into my own thing. You know, I was really personally passionate about Amazon. I think, I’ve certainly made a lot of mistakes. But one thing I’ve gotten right is, about a decade ago, I just saw that they were going to be one of the biggest companies on the planet. And I wanted to be doing something with them when that happens. So, you know, I’ve always been kind of an Amazon fan boy and then basically turn that into a business. 

Mario Fachini [1:58]

What is the main thing that you would say – if someone’s coming to you, what is the main thing you’d say you help them with? 

John Ghiorso [2:05]

So I guess the headline is we helped maximize the revenue potential for a company on the Amazon platform. And we do that in a number of different ways. But, ultimately, we don’t just want to grow a business, because we have a lot of clients that come to us and their business is already healthy and growing. We want to truly maximize the potential. So that’s really why we exist. 

Mario Fachini [2:28]

That’s what I was getting at is that you said you have various ways how you can do it. What are some of the ways that – what’s, like, the first thing you look for, for helping someone? Or they should be looking for if they want to be maximized? 

John Ghiorso [2:41]

Sure. So we’re a full service agency. We have an exclusive focus on Amazon. So what that means is we have capabilities in every facet of the platform. So for us, it’s going to be dependent on where that brand or company is in their lifecycle on the platform. But a lot of the most common elements that are really going to help accelerate a business are in advertising, robust advertising plan, and execution, content, and SEO. What we call being retail ready, which kind of encompasses all the things that need to happen before those other two things I just mentioned. So feedstock at the right price, available to customers, which seems straightforward, but can actually be pretty tricky to get 100 percent. So those are some of the big bucket. 

Mario Fachini [3:24]

When people are coming to you, you said a lot of them are already healthy companies and they don’t really need to grow, but you want to maximize it. Are those all the areas you’re looking at? Or is there something that someone should pay attention to that might be, let’s say, technical on one aspect but also just common sense on the other? 

John Ghiorso [3:45]

Yeah. I mean, literally, if I were to sort of put things in buckets, we’re doing hundreds of different things on a daily basis across our clients. Amazon comes out with a new program that a brand can participate in, literally, almost every day. There’s some new beta, some new, oftentimes way to spend money on this site. There’s lots of ways to spend money that don’t necessarily pan out. There’s a few that oftentimes do. But that’s also going to be different for every brand. So we tend to look for asymmetric returns and opportunities. Those that aren’t as competitive. So there’s a lot of opportunity in the new – in the things that Amazon is newly launching that are in beta that are fully rolled out to the entire platform. Because you can get kind of a first mover advantage. It’s a bit of an oddball one. But one I’m thinking about a lot right now is actually live video on the platform. That’s kind of a burgeoning new initiative. Obviously, you’re a fan of live video. But with the right product and the right presenter, it can be a great way to sell a product on the site. So it’s not going to work for every brand. But for the right brand with the right capabilities, the right message, it can work. And there’s hundreds of different marketing merchandising advertising opportunities to help sell more product on the site. 

Mario Fachini [5:04]

Now, if you’re on there, like I am. I have multiple books on there. Would you suggest live video for books? Or would you say it’s more for a product demonstration? And does everyone have access to it right now? Or is it only because you’ve done so much they roll it out to you first? 

John Ghiorso [5:22]

Not everyone has access to it. So it’s invite only right now. It’s actually going to be more about the affinity of the brand. Some of it is going to be relationship based. But a lot of it’s just, you know, do they think this is a top selling brand, a top selling product that could be represented well in this program? I would say books, no. Probably it doesn’t make sense. I mean, you really need a product that you can get. It’s something that would do well on QVC is probably going to do on Amazon video. It’s frankly not – it’s innovative in the sense that they’re doing it on the platform. But the medium itself has been done for 30 years on television. And like I said, that’s one of a million different opportunities out there. 

Mario Fachini [6:01]

Well, I think it’s cool that they’re bringing that stuff out there because everything is just going more and more online. I saw something the other day that I don’t know if it was Q3 or the shopping season or Q4 or whatever. But long story short, home goods on Amazon, like, trounce the top four competitors offline this past year with it. And I was just like, there’s no competition. As far as if you’re online, or off, or Amazon in that, I mean, there’s competition with on it now. But how have you seen that affect your clients over the years? 

John Ghiorso [6:35]

Yeah. I mean, Amazon is absolutely dominant in E-commerce. You know, you can talk about all of retail and they’re obviously a big retailer in their own right. But they still have no competition when you factor in, you know, Walmart, Target, Costco, and the other big brick and mortar retailers. But in E-commerce, I think they have, like, 60 percent share of all E-commerce. And in some categories 80 to 90 percent of E-commerce is just Amazon. What’s happened is it’s created a dynamic where most brands have to be there. And because they have to be there, Amazon can exert more pricing power. Like any big retailer would. You know, when they have all the cards, they’re going to make the most of it. So it hasn’t necessarily made it easy for brands. But I still think there’s an opportunity to really partner with Amazon in a net positive way. And, ultimately, be on the site. It’s also created a dynamic because there’s so much opportunity. There’s so much volume on the site that is more competitive than it’s ever been. I mean, I think there’s 500 million unique skews on the platform now. I mean, the numbers are just almost silly. You can never even envision that many products. But it’s created a dynamic where it’s not just even U.S. based companies. Now, you have companies based overseas that are direct importing products that get to market very fast, very cheap. So it’s more competitive than it’s ever been because there’s so much opportunity. 

Mario Fachini [8:01]

For someone who’s not on Amazon yet or is but is just kind of kicking it with a stick, what are a couple of things you’d recommend to them? 

John Ghiorso [8:10]

Yeah. So I’d say there’s two kind of big buckets that you need to focus on. The first is the same stuff you’d have to focus on if you were selling a product anywhere. Those are the fundamentals of right price, right product, innovative, good brand, all of those things that you have to have for direct consumer or Target or anyone else. But then in addition to that, you have to know how to out Amazon competition. Because you have to just assume everyone has a good quality product. Everyone has a good brand. That’s not enough. You also have to be expert at the platform itself, in terms of the way it functions, how SEO works, how content works, how the advertising functionality should play into your overall strategy. So you have to be good at all the things you already had to be good at to be successful in this business. Plus, you have to layer on top on Amazon expertise. And you know what we see -obviously, the agency guys are saying, “Hey, everyone. We should hire an agency that’s self-serving.” But I wouldn’t even say that. I’d say everyone needs an expert, whether that’s someone in-house or you hire an agency, and there’s lots of ways to approach that. But having Amazon be part of somebody’s job or kind of an afterthought, you’re just not going to get the maximum benefit out of it. You may get some sales. Your product may be there. It may not be a disaster. But you’re never going to squeeze all the juice from it if you’re not really focused on it as a working station. 

Mario Fachini [9:36]

Some great Expert Authority insights. Because I’ve learned a lot from others I’ve had on the show that don’t do what you do. But they do a lot more with Amazon than I ever thought was even possible. And you had mentioned something and I saw it on your website, too, with the ads. A lot of people don’t even know you can advertise on Amazon. They think you just drop something on there one time and that’s it. 

John Ghiorso [9:59]

Yeah. So this is the single biggest change on the platform in the last three years. Amazon used to be a much more organic democratized platform. It was really about showing up being in stock, having good content, putting your best foot forward. But maybe doing some marketing, which was always sort of vague in terms of the results or what you actually got out of it. Once Amazon instituted actual data driven programmatic options from an advertising perspective, and then took over a huge amount of real estate on the platform with paid placements, it really turned it into a pay to play platform. So today, if you type in any keyword on Amazon, probably five out of the first ten results are going to be paid. So as a brand, if you’re not taking that seriously, and your competitors are, there’s really nothing you can do it over. Like, if you don’t have the advertising piece handled and figure it out on the platform, even if your product is better or, frankly, even if it’s lower priced, that’s not going to be enough. Your competitors are going to eat your lunch. Now the flip side to that is there’s a huge amount of upside opportunity. Because you now have this giant lever to pull to grow your business that didn’t exist before. So it’s incentivizing – more aggressive brands are doing even better than they used to. And the ones that are asleep at the wheel are not — let me say, have more loads. 

Mario Fachini [11:24]

That’s hilarious. But it’s also true. And it’s just – even in the last ten years, I mean, it’s just amazing to see what the companies are doing. And if you really pay attention, they’re all being very similar. And people could argue, “Well, now I have to pay blah, blah, blah, you know, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, all these. Well, I used to be able -” it doesn’t matter. I get excited because it’s like, “All you have to do is pay them and you get access to the whole thing and the data.” I’d rather have to pay and get all the insights in the data and the SEO benefits than just have a large reach and 80 percent isn’t the right people. 

John Ghiorso [12:06]

Well, and keep in mind, it’s an open platform. So if you’re a new brand selling whatever product, you’d have to bang your head against the wall for four years to get into a Walmart or Target or Costco. You can go set your stuff up by the end of the day on Amazon. So, yeah, you have to pay to play to a degree. But they’re also just handing you the keys and saying, “This is your business. You can make it or break it or accelerate it. It’s all up to you.” So compared to the old school, brick and mortar retailers who all have multiple layers of gatekeepers and planning and all these things. It’s liberating. And my advice would be to take full advantage of that if you’re a consumer product brand. 

Mario Fachini [12:51]

Yeah. I’m a big fan of them from the publishing side. Ever since I did my first book, I’ve helped people publish lead generating and profit generating business books and help them market them. And before, like you’re saying, how long would it take you to get into all the brick and mortar stores and all of this traditional publishing this and that? I do everything in eight weeks with people. And there’s no way you’re going to do that 15 years ago or 12? 

John Ghiorso [13:19]

No. I mean, because – well, and not to mention the big publishers. If you could even get a book deal and then get, you know, they have – you have to go through them to get distribution. So, yeah, I mean, it’s absolutely – Amazon is one of those companies that is making – creating more opportunity for entrepreneurs in this country that I think there’s ever been. It’s not just Amazon. It’s a lot of the tech companies and other things. But the opportunities now to start and grow a business are so much more open and democratized than they used to be where you just had to know the right person or you had to already have capital or already have a brand. I think that’s why, frankly, one of the reasons you’re seeing economy do so well because there’s so much opportunity to come in and make something quickly. 

Mario Fachini [14:03]

That’s exciting to me. And I’m glad you’re on the cutting edge of it. And I appreciate you for sharing this with Expert Authority World. I want to ask you about your clients. Who are a couple of the biggest success stories? You have a lot of big names on your site. If you can’t talk about who they are specifically, I get it. But I’m sure there’s some. Who are some of your biggest success stories? 

John Ghiorso [14:22]

Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting. I guess it depends on how you define success. I mean, if you look at it purely from a monetary standpoint, we have brands that we started with that were doing 20, 00, 30,000, 50,000 a year on the site six years ago that are now doing 40 million. So you know, that’s basically exponential people. And misused the term exponential growth, but it’s literally exponential, you know, doubling every year for six, seven years. We have a lot of businesses that we’ve come into more recently who are already decently large 5 million, 10 million, 20 million. And we’ve really been able to accelerate the growth and to, in some cases, just create more efficiency and more profitability. You know, Amazon, if it’s not approached the right way, it’s very easy to just throw a ton of money at the platform and not necessarily get the results that you’re looking for. So there are some brands that actually can be over investing, overspending, or just investing maybe in a sub-optimal way. And so there’s oftentimes big opportunities there as well. 

Mario Fachini [15:25]

Have you noticed any similarities with the ones that started smaller versus they were already underway? Do they both have the same type of problems or are they completely different? 

John Ghiorso [15:36]

Yes. Well, you know, what’s interesting is we do solve problems. I mean, we come in and fix things. Sometimes things are on fire and we have to out the fire. But a lot of the time, it’s not necessarily there’s a problem. It’s just that the opportunity hasn’t been fully leveraged. So it’s not that anything’s broken. It just hasn’t been fully maximized. You know, I would say that the common thread for the brands that we worked with who done disproportionately well, is that, one, they have a commitment to Amazon and to the platform. They take it seriously. They put in the right investment. They pay attention to it. They make changes in their own business that they have to make the Amazon business work better. And then, two, they’re flexible from a test and learn perspective. Amazon, like I said, comes out with different beta program every week. So the brands that have been willing to invest – not make huge bets off at the farm but makes small bets, a lot of small bets and a lot of these new things with no guaranteed pay off, some don’t work, some work really well. And then you can double down on those. Those brands that are willing to be nimble – which by the way is a lot easier for entrepreneurial small privately run companies versus big CPG companies – a lot tougher. We have a big bureaucracy you’re dealing with. But regardless, that flexibility willing to kind of test has been really helpful over the long run for the brands to take it seriously. 

Mario Fachini [17:04]

What do you see on the horizon for the next five to ten years with Amazon? 

John Ghiorso [17:09]

It’s going to be wild. So the one thing that I always – I think people are maybe thinking I’m wearing a tinfoil hat a little bit. But I think the Alexa platform is going to be absolutely game changing. Right now, it’s kind of a gimmicky voice activated speaker that people have. But what we’re looking at is essentially a preview into the future. So I think that Alexa will fundamentally alter the way that we do commerce and a lot of our personal computing in our day-to-day lives. I think a good percentage of people’s purchases on Amazon ten years out or five years out, especially ten years out, will not involve any actual effort. They will be essentially reordered, automatically ordered, or maybe at worst, from an effort perspective ordered with a very quick voice command. And that’s really going to change the entire dynamic of the platform. It’s not going to happen overnight. But I do think we’ll continue to see iterative progress towards that. 

Mario Fachini [18:15]

I think you’re we’re kind of right on target. Because there’s videos I’ve watched on YouTube where they’re talking about – I don’t want to say it because she can hear me right now – and that’s why I’m glad I had my in-ear monitors. And when you kept saying it, I was like, “She can’t hear you.” But while I was watching those, stuff was actually getting ordered. And I was like, “Oh my gosh.” Whatever the key words that were spoken, it wasn’t just like, “Look this up.” It was like add to cart and purchase. I don’t even know what it was. But when I looked, I got the emails that were, like, it was already through. And I was like, I was watching the YouTube video and it was still picking it up. 

John Ghiorso [18:55]

Yeah. I ordered a toaster the other day. Which is – you know, it’s one thing if you reorder the same coffee that you’ve ordered for two years. That’s pretty straightforward. But, you know, a toaster, you need to see it, you need to consider is it four slice, two slice, is it a chrome, is black. And part of the reason I was able to do that is I was using the device with the screen on it. The new, I think, it’s the show. So again, it’s, I think, a look into where this is all going. But you can buy a toaster, you can buy most products through the platform. 

Mario Fachini [19:27]

What do you think about the Amazon auto? 

John Ghiorso [19:30]

Yeah. I think it’s cool. So I think it’s a piece of where this is all going, which is for this to truly function the way that they want it to function. It has to be with you, essentially, 24 hours a day. So it’s already in your house. For people that have a device, maybe it’s one part of your house, maybe it’s just the kitchen or just your living room. But they want it to be throughout your entire house. They want it to be in your car. A lot of people spend a lot of time in their cars. And then it needs to be on your person. So when you look at the new round of devices they launched, there were a lot of wearables that are very, I would say – I’ll say, gimmicky right now. I think they’re pretty gimmicky. I don’t know how much really functionality you’re going to get out of it. But again, it’s kind of version one. Ultimately, I think Amazon has realized they’re never going to own the smartphone because there’s massive entrenched competitors that don’t want them to. But they can own the rest of the wearable environment as well as the car, and the home, and the workplace. And if you do that, you have a personal assistant that lives with you 24 hours a day. And if you have that, it means that all of your commerce now. Just like when people started switching from, “Okay. I need something. I have to figure out what store to go to.” Versus their default behaviors, “I’m just going to go on Amazon first.” I think we’re ultimately going to get to a place where the first thing I think of is I’m going to ask and I’ll just say the voice assistant. So I don’t trigger it. But I’m going to ask the voice assistant. First, I’m not going to jump on my phone or my computer first. And once we get to that point, they change the way that people fundamentally shop and purchase products. And I think they work with that. 

Mario Fachini [21:11]

It’s interesting you’re saying that. And it’s also funny because I would – the other thought I had was, I wonder how many people are getting triggered watching this episode or listening to it? Like it happened to me when I was watching another one. That’s funny. But when you said they won’t own the smartphone space, I was thinking they don’t need to because there’s a lot of people pushing to get rid of the physical device but still have the functionality I’ve seen, you know, the foldable phones, the hologram phones where it’s projected on your arm, this and that. And it’s like, I remember when someone proposed that a couple years ago. And it’s like, “Oh, it’s going to be a thing of the past.” And I’m like, “What do you look at then?” 

John Ghiorso [21:53]

Yeah. That’s still a big question mark when you think about future say technology stuff. Google tried to do Google Glass. They were probably way too early. You know, right now, you have the Apple Watch. Amazon just came out with a ring with, literally, a ring like you were on your finger with a speaker and microphone in it, which is pretty wild, glasses and then earbuds that all have, you know, the assistant integrated. I don’t know – and there’s no way that could replace a smartphone right now. But, potentially, in this kind of conversational AI. The AI knows everything about you and your calendar and all these other things. Could you get away with not carrying around a phone? I think essentially, which is, I mean, pretty wild actually if we get to that place. 

Mario Fachini [22:43]

Yeah. And for me, I like to do a fair amount of research and look stuff up and just be educated and learn. But there’s – also, I know a fair amount of people who are just listening to stuff, watching stuff. It’s more of an entertainment, check an email, check a text. And if you look at the basic operations, most people aren’t sitting at computers anymore [9:00] to [5:00] using them just to check email. Because even four years ago, some of my own students, they were just struggling with something. I was like, “Are you on your desktop or laptop?” They’re like, “I haven’t used one in two years.” And I’m like, “Well, no wonder everything’s more difficult. You’re trying to pull office work off on a screen 24/7.” And it’s like, at some point, you need a bigger screen. But if you don’t do that type of work. Do you? 

John Ghiorso [23:31]

Yeah. That’s why I think for personal computing, it makes the biggest impact. For work, I mean, I still need – you know, as advanced as we are, I still need a big screen and a keyboard and mouse. 

Mario Fachini [23:44]

At least one screen? 

John Ghiorso [23:46]

Yes. At least. 

Mario Fachini [23:47]

At least one big – one screen. So how are you wrapping this in with your clients? And are any of them asking you, “Well, can you get me on her? Can you do this? Can you do that?” Or is it pretty straightforward with the process that you’re taking them through as far as it’s a similar process for everyone. You don’t need to change that. But you might change what you’re doing within it for different client? 

John Ghiorso [24:11]

Yeah. So you know what’s interesting is, like, this stuff’s super fun to talk about because it’s the future. And it’s going to be really interesting to see where it goes. From an actual practical brand perspective, I want to sell more products on Amazon next month. There are some things that you can do to integrate better with the platform – with the voice platform. For CPG brands, so for consumable brands, there’s more to do right now. Because there’s more purchases of consumable product happening through a voice only environment. Because obviously, if you have voice only, which most people still don’t have a screen yet associated with it, it’s really hard to order a toaster or a jacket or a pair of shoes. You can say reorder coffee or reorder laundry detergent. So there are some things to do getting customers to engage with the platform, encouraging them to engage with the platform offline, so off Amazon, to say – you know, and I won’t say it. But the weight it word add to my cart, those types of things are very simple. But that type of messaging can get customers into the habit of using it to replenish product and that can help. There are some things that can be done to optimize product detail pages for the current sort of voice experience. But think of it right now, similar to the shift from desktop to mobile, you weren’t going to fundamentally throw out your strategy and say, “Well, people are going to mobile. We need to do things entirely different.” You’re probably going to take everything you’ve been doing that was successful and just tweak it so that it shows up the right way. You know, people interact with it the right way on mobile. By the way, we’re still going through that today. Now you just have to layer on kind of this next evolution of desktop to mobile, mobile voice, which I do think will be really impactful long term. But right now, these are more about being educated on where this is all going. And then being prepared to act quickly, when it does eventually start to make a serious impact on actual purchasing behavior and commerce. There are some custom opportunities with that team. But frankly, like, you need to be a big high affinity brand. So this is kind of big global partnership stuff. But I assume over time, Amazon will open up more and more opportunities to proactively play in the voice platform from a brand perspective. 

Mario Fachini [26:36]

So whether it’s three, five, eight years, ten down the road, how long do you think it will take? I’m thinking of S curves and economics, critical mass. How long do you think it will take to just completely go from where it’s at to everyone’s got that consumption rate, everyone’s adopted it, and it’s the new way of doing things? 

John Ghiorso [26:57]

Yeah. So what’s interesting is I don’t have the stat in front of me. But if you look at the adoption of the devices, Echo devices have been adopted faster than any other big technological shift. Much faster than smartphones. Way even faster than PCs were adopted, you know, 20, however many, 20 or 25 years ago. So they basically went from nothing to, like, I think their penetration is like 40 or 50 percent U.S. households have one now in, like, three years. So the adoption of the technology itself is pretty much there to hit scale. It’s actually the functionality of the platform still needs to improve. The devices are used frequently but not for very long. So you know, maybe someone uses it to listen to the news in the morning, set a few timers in the evening when they’re cooking, maybe look up a recipe. But total, like, ten minutes of usage per day. A lot of people use it even less. So their needs – there’s really a lot of improvement, frankly, in the technology itself. Amazon has, I think thousands of people, just engineers on the team. So it’s a huge investment for them improving this. But there are some real improvements that need to happen. You need to get to a point where the AI is much more conversational versus this kind of clunky back and forth conversation. You need to feel like you’re talking [unintelligible] [00:28:23]. There needs to be a lot more integration with things like calendars and other parts of your life that ultimately impacts different behavior. You need to get a lot more connectivity. Like, again, it can’t just be the one device in the kitchen because that’s limited. You need to have it in the car and on the person. But they’re working on all these things. I would say we start to see a fundamental shift in consumer behavior in two to three years. That would be my guess. 

Mario Fachini [28:54]

So two to three years once it’s adopted? 

John Ghiorso [28:57]

Well, I would say it is adopted. I mean, I think there needs to be more penetration. 

Mario Fachini [29:03]

So you’re saying all this in the next two to three years? 

John Ghiorso [29:06]

Yeah. I would say in two to three years, you start to see the way people go about their lives from a computing perspective starts to fundamentally change. It doesn’t radically overnight shift. But you start to see real changes now and then in terms of the way people actually get things done. Schedule appointments, book dinner reservations, buy stuff, communicate with people. Yeah, I think that happens as soon as two to three years from now. 

Mario Fachini [29:33]

Well, that’s pretty exciting. What do you see it doing for travel and international? 

John Ghiorso [29:39]

So I mean, I think for travel, I always think about it in this paradigm of personal assistant. So if I have a personal assistant, one of the first things I’m going to do is book my travel, book dinner reservations, book movie tickets, that kind of stuff. So I actually think that’s where it all – there’s already a lot of functionality built out. It’s still a little bit nerdy in the sense of you have to like set it up and activate it. You still have to be kind of a fan boy of it to really use it. It’s not going to be used by your average consumer who just wants the thing to work. But yeah, I think it’s hugely applicable for travel companies. The Expedias of the world. So you have skills that plug in to the platform. And then you just look through that versus having to actually go on screen and book things. Oregon or maybe both depending on the device. But yeah, I think very applicable. And then in terms of international penetration, I think the platform is trained on, like, 15 languages now. I mean, their goal is going to be to have every language where there’s an Amazon operation. It seems like an Alexa. 

Mario Fachini [30:46]

Well, I appreciate everything you’re sharing. You have given a lot of great insights. I am curious. I know there’s someone that’s listening to this that’s maybe not utilizing Amazon. They’re not selling a whole lot. But like, we’re talking about with the Alexa skills, just the different stuff we’re mentioning, it’s no longer just a place too. And I’m thinking for myself, it’s no longer a place to only sell books. What are a couple ways they can take advantage of it regardless of what business they’re in? Do you think it’s worth setting up a skill or a news briefing in the morning? 

John Ghiorso [31:18]

I would say the juice is not worth the squeeze for most companies right now. If you’re a large consumer service or consumer product company, it’s worth looking at. Especially consumer service company, to be honest. I mean, I actually think a company selling movie tickets is going to get more out of it than a company selling toasters right now, even though you don’t sell movie tickets on Amazon. But I think that’s worth looking at. Skills are – you know, you need an engineering team or someone that’s very tech savvy to do. So it’s going to be a six figure investment, most likely. So I don’t think that’s the place to start. I think if you’re a brand that is on Amazon and you want to really maximize the potential, this is going to be the total opposite direction of the conversation so far. But honestly, I think you need to focus on the fundamentals. You need to make sure you have great content. It’s SEO optimized. You need to make sure that your advertising budget is appropriate and being efficiently spent or maximize the opportunity of those dollars. You need to make sure your products in stock. That it has good reviews. Once you’ve done all those things, that should lead to a significant uptick in growth. Now after that, then you should get into things like voice and live video and some of the other opportunities on the platform. But I do get worried as interesting and exciting as some of these things are to talk about. You know, you risk kind of the the shiny ball syndrome where you’re always going, “Oh, this cool new thing. This cool new thing.” You’re kind of chasing these things around while the fundamentals of the business are maximized. So it’s not nearly as exciting to talk about. But some of those fundamental elements are still going to be the day-to-day drivers. 

Mario Fachini [32:59]

Well, having a healthy business is healthy, profitable, long term business. That’s exciting to talk about. 

John Ghiorso [33:04]

That is true. For sure. 

Mario Fachini [33:06]

And I know, like you’re saying, the SEO, the reviews. I’ve told people about reviews for forever. Because no matter if it’s just a testimonial or a book review or whatever, if you don’t have those, that’s the social proof that everyone’s looking at. 

John Ghiorso [33:22]

Yeah. Reviews are critical. High quality content is critical. High quality images. Amazon offers a lot more opportunity for brands than they used to, to put rich media on the platform. So you still have to go do it all or have an agency do it all. They’re not going to do it for you. But at least the structure is there to be able to tell your story as a brand. Before, you know, four or five years ago, it was much, much more limited. But you have things like a brand store now which is kind of like a little website. Then the site is just as about your brand. You have an opportunity to do 360 imagery, a lot more video capabilities, embedded video in the actual detail page. So while you’re scrolling through content, you see a video. There’s advertising capabilities, video, and search. So as you’re scrolling on a mobile device through search results, you can have a little 15 second video pop up to showcase your product that converts really, really well. So there’s a lot of, like, cool stuff that you can do now to really put your best foot forward as a brand. 

Mario Fachini [34:25]

And I’m excited to tell you – I know you said it might not be applicable to everyone. But since you have your show, there’s a fair amount you can do with the podcast and Her to get people to just change something around where you can just – it’s already programmed and you don’t need to do a lot of engineers in that. They’re rolling out more and more specifically because it’s all audio and voice. 

John Ghiorso [34:49]

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. 

Mario Fachini [34:51]

Well, I have one other question for you and I call this – I just released it on the last episode – it’s going to be eventually be yellow and blue – no yellow and – whatever that is – black. It’s called the Wheel of Whatever. We spin it and we’re going to pretend the questions are on there right now. But you gave me – I have some standard ones. But the one I have for you is with everything we’re talking about with AI and tech and Alexa and Her, and all these different things. What do you think they’re doing with the data? Do you really think it’s a Big Brother thing that everyone thinks there’s this big conspiracy about it? Or do you really think it’s private and no one’s ever heard of anything but Amazon? 

John Ghiorso [35:29]

I mean, it’s private. They’re not going to – like any company, they will use datasets to do ad targeting, like Facebook or Instagram, or Google.  Everyone’s doing that, right? Walmart is doing it now. Everyone is using their kind of core data set about how old you are and where you live and what you like to purchase to serve relevant ads. I think that’s pretty kind of – to me, I see that as very noncontroversial. I don’t care someone says, “Oh, you like this soap. We’re going to show you a picture of a similar soap.” Okay. Fine. In here, the other stuff is really kind of conspiracy theory stuff. I mean, Amazon has been actually very transparent about what they do when they record you with the devices. When they do record you, they use that to improve the algorithm. But they’re not doing anything else with that information. So yeah, most of it is kind of conspiracy theory stuff. I’m not, frankly, really worried about it. 

Mario Fachini [36:32]

Okay. That’s fair. I was just curious because we’re talking about all the things and I go, I know there’s someone that’s thinking of the picture of, “Well, I walked into my home and I said this. And the machine laughed, the toaster laughed, the refrigerator laughed. We all had a good time.” 

John Ghiorso [36:48]

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think it’s important to be cognizant enough to understand what is and isn’t happening just from a consumer standpoint. But you know, Amazon is not going to risk violating trust with their customers. That really is – and that’s $100 billion mistake for them if they did that. So they’re going to put the customer first. They’re going to act ethically. I mean, maybe people say, “Oh god, you’re like an Amazon spokesperson.” But I’ve been working with the company for a decade. And honestly, I’ve never seen them do anything that they don’t think is worth a million [unintelligible] [00:37:21]. 

Mario Fachini [37:23]

And that’s why I asked you and saved the other ones for the next interviews. Because I was like, “He’s going to know. If anyone’s going to know, it’s going to be you.” And I didn’t think so. But you know, you hear people say stuff and everything. And I’ve told people for years, too, even when Facebook came out. They’re like, “Oh, they’re going to blah, blah, blah, whatever.” I go, “You have to remember you’re the one volunteering the information. If you don’t want someone to know, stop posting it so much.” 

John Ghiorso [37:46]

Yeah. That’s true. 

Mario Fachini [37:48]

“How do they know where I’m at?” Stop checking in. It’s not rocket science. 

John Ghiorso [37:52]

Yeah, for sure. And on Facebook, you know, you’re not the customer. You’re the product. 

Mario Fachini [37:56]

That’s true too. 

John Ghiorso [37:57]

You’re not paying anything. They’re customers. They’re advertisers. You’re the product. On Amazon, you’re actually the customer. 

Mario Fachini [38:04]

Well, I think we have a whole other talk there. But we’re going to thank our sponsor and come back for the Imperfect Action Round. 

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Mario Fachini [39:24]

All right. We are back with the imperfect Action Round. John, are you ready to take imperfect action? 

John Ghiorso [39:29]

Sure. 

Mario Fachini [39:30]

First question, what is the fastest path to the cash? 

John Ghiorso [39:35]

Always add value. 

Mario Fachini [39:37]

Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way they can fix it? 

John Ghiorso [39:44]

I see them not taking a long term view of the platform. So they’re too short term transactional focus. They need to be thinking two, three, five years out. 

Mario Fachini [39:56]

Number three, what’s the best way to maximize customer lifetime value? 

John Ghiorso [40:02]

Honestly, saying the — to answer both a little bit from the first question, I think, especially from an agency perspective, you have to be obsessed with adding value to your client every day, every hour, every week. If you’re not, they have plenty of options. They have plenty of other ways to go about doing this. You need to add maximum value to the point where you’re completely indispensable for their business. 

Mario Fachini [40:26]

Very good. What are some books that have made a big difference in your life? 

John Ghiorso [40:32]

Yeah. A couple. Well, I mean I read a lot. But a couple top ones, honestly, at this point it’s like retro. But the Four Hour Work Week was one of the first books I ever read on — well, not first but it was one of the most impactful books I ever read on business. Cheesy title, a really good book though about time management. And when you’re an entrepreneur, it’s much more about choosing what not to do than it is about what you can do or should be doing. So that’s a really interesting book. It kind of makes you rethink your entire way of approaching your day and what you can spend time on, what’s important, and what’s not. 

Mario Fachini [41:09]

That’s a great recommendation. Any others? 

John Ghiorso [41:11]

I just read a book called Team of Teams. I re-read it. I think I read it a few years when it came out. I think it’s Stanley McCrystal. He was a four-star general who run the special operations command. And basically, when we were losing really badly in, like, 2004 in Iraq, he came and he kind of reworked the whole structure of special operations. And a lot of those lessons are highly applicable to the business, especially with [unintelligible] [00:41:42] was very fast-moving, very nimble enemy in Al Qaeda. And they were, basically, losing against them. And so there’s a lot of parallels between how to compete in a very fast moving environment from a business perspective, from a structure perspective. It’s a really interesting book. 

Mario Fachini [41:59]

And what’s the name of that one again?  

John Ghiorso [42:01]

Team of Teams. 

Mario Fachini [42:02]

Team of Teams. 

John Ghiorso [42:03]

Yeah. 

Mario Fachini [42:04]

Excellent. Well, I appreciate the recommendations. I want to thank you for everything you have shared. It’s been an absolute pleasure. I’ve got a lot out of it myself. Where can people learn more about you? 

John Ghiorso [42:16]

Yes. We put out a lot of thought leadership and different content on our website. So that’s orcapac, ORCAPAC, .com. And then I’m pretty active on LinkedIn. I post a lot of different stuff and ideas and try to be pretty engaged there. So you can just find me, I’m happy to connect on that platform as well. 

Mario Fachini [42:34]

Very good. Well, it’s been an absolute pleasure. And I want to thank you again. 

John Ghiorso [42:38]

All right. Thanks so much. 

Mario Fachini [42:39]

All right. Expert Authority World, we have another episode. I look forward to seeing you on tomorrow’s. Have a great day and God bless. 

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www.EAInterviews.com [43:40]

Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven’t done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.