0148: The Benefits of Integrating Print & Digital Marketing for Increased Profitably with Ryan Cote

Intro [0:00]

EA Interviews Episode 148. Inspiration, transformation, success stories, and the Imperfect Action Round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview. 

Mario Fachini [0:13]

Lead generation, digital marketing, direct mail, are you doing it? Are you doing any of it? Are you doing all of it? I have. And it’s a lot of fun. And I’m excited to have Ryan Cote, Director of Digital Marketing at Ballantine, a family owned and operated company since 1960s. He is going to be sharing with you the strategies that worked from the old direct mail, which is – the old process, I should say – because if you’re not doing it, you absolutely should – in bridging the gap with the new digital marketing that you’ve probably been inundated with the whole time. So pay attention and listen closely. Because if you don’t have a lead gen strategy – if you don’t have a lead gen without a strategy, you’ve got one problem. And if you don’t have lead gen, you have an even bigger problem. So that’s why I’m excited to be bringing him on the show here right after we thank our sponsor. 

SPONSOR Acorns [1:11]

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Mario Fachini [1:28]

Here he is ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Ryan Cote. Ryan, how are you today? 

Ryan Cote [1:33]

Hey, Mario. I’m doing great. How about you? 

Mario Fachini [1:34]

I’m feeling excellent. And I’m excited for what you’re going to be sharing. Because every business needs it. It’s so needed. And so many people are not doing it the right way. And I want to help them maximize that. So tell me a little bit about the business. I know you said you got started – tell us how you got started and also how the company got started. 

Ryan Cote [2:00]

Yes. I’ve been here 16 years. It’s a family business. My great uncle started the company in 1966. And now it’s myself, my two brothers, and my uncle that are partners in the business. My cousin is here too. So there’s five Cote’s. And we started out just doing direct mail. And then over the years, we’ve evolved. Then five years ago, I helped start the digital division with one of my brothers. And so that’s sort of like a startup inside and established a 54 year old business. So it’s been fun. You know, when I started at the company, I was just doing marketing. And now, I’m director of the digital department and sales and some management team. I wear multiple hats. 

Mario Fachini [2:42]

Well, that’s fantastic. I love entrepreneurship and business and helping people in general. But even more so when it’s family owned. It’s just a testament that you can really do anything you want and put your mind to it. And spend more time with the people you love instead of just working for someone else. So I’m happy to hear not only that, that’s how you did it too. But also, it’s been around for so many years, so congrats on that. 

Ryan Cote [3:08]

Thank you. 

Mario Fachini [3:10]

With everyone you helped, who are you really looking to help? Because I mean, the worst thing some business can say is, “Well, I helped everyone.” And even though you can, who is, like, your ideal prospect? 

Ryan Cote [3:26]

You ask good questions. It’s actually something that we went through in 2017. We went through a period where we started losing a lot of big clients. And it really made us take a hard look at our processes, the clients that we were going after, our onboarding, the whole thing. And since then, we try to do things better and better. But going back to your question, that six month period really made us evaluate who we serve the best. And so now, it’s really service businesses, b2b businesses, business to business. Usually, small clients that tend to 40 employees, usually, they don’t have a marketing person. So we become essentially like their marketing department. Or they’ve got one person who can only handle so much or, maybe, marketing is certainly half their role suite. So we help them add – you know, basically, we essentially manage all their marketing for them and help them with all that. So that’s a real sweet spot. So what does that look like? Contractors, manufacturers, getting big into auto dealerships too. That’s a lot of fun. 

Mario Fachini [4:31]

What would you say you’re helping them majority with now? Because I love the fact that you’re doing direct mail. I’ve done that and I actually really enjoy it. Because for me, and also everyone else now, it’s been around for so long. A lot of people forget about it. So you think well, who’s doing direct mail because there’s all this widget gizmo stuff? But at the same time, no one’s really doing it and they’re not doing it right. So now, it went from the direct mail being cluttered to everyone going to email. And then everyone forgetting about this. Not everyone. I shouldn’t say that. But a lot of people go on strictly digital and now it’s like the Wild West again if you actually send them something. So what are you finding works best now with direct mail? And how do you couple that with the digital side?

Ryan Cote [5:20]

Yeah. Good question. I mean, so on the direct mail side, our typical client are very large companies, like very large corporate companies. On the digital side, the profile you just described, the small businesses, that’s who we usually serve best. And even even small businesses, they’re getting back into direct mail. We’re actually doing a project right now for a financial client that we signed up a few weeks ago. And we’re starting off the engagement with redesigning all the flyers, printing them, new business cards. For one of our contractor clients, we handle all their digital. We also do postcards every quarter, looking for kitchen and bathroom remodels. And so even the small clients are realizing that, you know – because direct mail can be a little bit – you know, when you consider the printing, the mailing, the postage, it does add up. And it’s typically more expensive than digital. But it does offer a unique element where it’s, like you said, less crowded in the mailbox. With email you’re competing with, it could be, thousands of emails. With direct mail, it’s ten pieces, 15 pieces, 20 pieces of mail. And so it’s a nice complement to any digital. And then how do you kind of combine the two? Well, you can take them out in the mail file that you have and upload it to Facebook. And so certain percentage of people that are getting your postcard or wherever you’re mailing out, is also getting your ad in their Facebook feed. Obviously, you have their email, then you can add email to the mix. So they’re getting a postcard within Facebook ad and they’re getting an email. So it just depends on what assets you have and what information you have. But because of all this technology, we can kind of combine the two now. 

Mario Fachini [6:51]

I’m glad you’re mentioning that because a lot of people just don’t think about it that way. Because unless you’re in the marketing space like we are, you’re not keeping up with it. You’re only going at best off of what you think. You’re going off of what someone you think knows what they’re talking about. And they’re only limited by what they know. And I don’t find too many people that are doing both sides of it. How else are you coupling it? Do you also mix in some some phone calls with tracking numbers? Have you done anything with Facebook Messenger bots? What about remarketing? 

Ryan Cote [7:29]

Nothing with phone calls. Though we always encourage that if one of our clients is going to do a direct mail campaign with Facebook ads or what have you, I always recommend that they get the phone number with the list so they can do their phone calls based on a service that we provide. Facebook Messenger not that much. On the Facebook ads, a lot of lead form ads, local awareness ads on Facebook video. Not much with Messenger. We’re starting to do it with our dealership clients. And then remarketing, yeah. Remarketing is something that we – it’s part of almost every plan that we do. Because if you think about it, any marketing you’re pushing through a website. And so they come to the site and most are going to leave, that’s the way it is. And you won’t have a second chance of getting in front of them, that’s where remarketing comes into play. So you remarket on Google, you remarket on Facebook, Instagram. So you know, they leave your site and you’re just surrounding them no matter where they go. 

Mario Fachini [8:18]

What are the benefits you’re seeing in your conversion rates? If you were to only do a direct mail piece or only do a single Facebook ad, what are you typically finding when you’re doing the remarketing after the fact? 

Ryan Cote [8:32]

That’s a good question. I don’t have any hard stats. You mean it’s like you’re adding remarketing to a direct mail campaign? 

Mario Fachini [8:39]

Yeah. Because what I’m breaking down is there’s people that have come to me that go, “Well, we do direct marketing, blah, blah, blah.” And that’s cool. And then they go, “Well, we do this. We do that.” But there’s very few that combine it. And I know just statistically whether it’s a direct mail or online ads. If you hit someone one time, it’s one time. When you expand that out –

Ryan Cote [9:03]

Yeah. Most of them definitely. 

Mario Fachini [9:04]

Yeah. The same thing with a phone call. Well, I cold call people. Well, I’m asking myself why. But if you’re using it in conjunction with you send them something in the physical mail that says, “Go check out the website.” Now, you can see what they’re doing. And maybe a week later say, “Hey, we noticed you checked out the site” if they didn’t take any action yet. That’s powerful. But just doing any one of those just randomly is, like, boring. 

Ryan Cote [9:29]

Yeah. We always stress the importance of multiple touchpoints. Because you don’t want to rely on one channel. Even if we’re just talking about digital, you don’t want to rely on just Google or SEO because it’s always changing. You want to do paid search, you want to do social media, you want to do content. They all work together. So we never rely on just one channel because you need multiple touchpoints. I mean, the dealerships we help, they’re famous for that because they really want to saturate their whole sales area with as much information as possible. So email, direct mail, Facebook ads, Google ads. Because it’s very competitive and they have to – you never want to assume that your prospect or potential client is going to notice your email. They’re going to notice your postcard. You want to hit them in all their feeds, and their inboxes, and the mailboxes. Because those multiple touchpoints is what’s going to increase the response rate. 

Mario Fachini [10:15]

Absolutely. What would you say if we were sitting down, if I gave you a dozen people right now. They’re listening to the show but we’re all in the same room. What is one or two things you could say to small to medium sized business owner for the biggest ROI and the biggest jump with the least amount of effort right now? What is something that they could do that they might not be doing already? 

Ryan Cote [10:45]

The two answers – believe or not – that came to my head right away is centered around content. So we’re doing a lot of transcription content, which is basically interviewing our clients on their expertise. And then transcribing it into a blog post. And then editing that into a blog. So basically, recording the conversation, transcribing it, and then editing and proofreading that transcription into a blog post. It’s a way to create expert level content with minimal effort. And that’s been working like gangbusters. We probably do it for half our clients. And then the other thing that came to mind, along with content is, once you start creating a lot of content, you’ll notice after six months, 12 months, it gets hard to think about the topics to create and to write about. And so what we do, and we’ve seen really good organic growth from this, is going back to old blog posts, especially ones that are doing very well. And then, basically, not rewriting them. Because if they’re doing well on Google, you don’t want to change too much. You don’t know exactly why Google is ranking it. But we’ll basically double up the blog post. So we’ll have the original blog post. We’ll keep the metadata the same and all that. And we’ll just add more content to the blog post. So basically, you’re giving Google more of what it already likes. Whenever we do that, the organic of that post always goes up. It’s been magical. 

Mario Fachini [12:04]

Tell me more about this metadata on the post. Because you got my interest piqued here. I’m thinking would be on own show notes for EAInterviews.com. 

Ryan Cote [12:13]

Sure. 

Mario Fachini [12:14]

Where do you even find the metadata? Are you talking with a plugin? Or do you have special tools? Or is it – what would you suggest? How do you keep the existing data and not jack it up too much? But how do you even know what to tweak on there? 

Ryan Cote [12:31]

So the metadata is the title tag and the meta description. Technically, the title tag is not part of metadata, but it’s just kind of what most people call it. 

Mario Fachini [12:38]

Something you should pay attention to. 

Ryan Cote [12:40]

Yeah. The title tag and the meta description. Every page has a title tag and every page has a meta description. And those are what usually shows up in the search results of Google. So if you look at their search results, you’ve got the blue headlines are clickable. That’s usually – not always – usually the title tag. And then below it, that little snippet is usually the meta description, unless Google rewrites it. But in most searches, that’s what’s showing up. And if you’re on WordPress, easy. We use the Yoast SEO plugin. That’s 99 percent of what we use on WordPress. If you’re not on WordPress, you know, it just depends on what you’re on. 

Mario Fachini [13:12]

You should be. 

Ryan Cote [13:13]

You should be, yeah. It feels like 30 percent of the web, if not more now. We are on site [unintelligible] [00:13:19]. It’s very easy. You have more options with SEO. You just have more options with content creation, with web building. I know that has some vulnerabilities, like security and stuff like that, but you keep the site up to date. 

Mario Fachini [13:32]

So do hospitals and the government and everything else. I mean – 

Ryan Cote [13:37]

That’s very true. But the Yoast SEO plugin is what we use. And you’ll see if you go down the page, there’ll be a Yoast section and there’ll be a title tag field, there’ll be a meta description field [unintelligible] [00:13:48] there. 

Mario Fachini [13:49]

Okay.  Well, I appreciate that info because I’m always looking to improve EAInterviews.com. And also I know there’s a ton of people that have no clue what SEO is. It’s something that’s irrelevant now. I wouldn’t agree with that. But there’s been people – 

Ryan Cote [14:05]

It’s harder. 

Mario Fachini [14:06]

What’s that?

Ryan Cote [14:06]

It’s harder. But still good. 

Mario Fachini [14:09]

It’s harder. I’ve had people for 15 years plus asked me, “What should we do for the SEO?” I’m like, “I have no clue and I don’t care.” 

Ryan Cote [14:18]

I can give a free tool that helps with finding the right keywords. 

Mario Fachini [14:21]

Please. 

Ryan Cote [14:22]

I’m not affiliated with them. We use a paid tool called SEMrush. But then we also use a free tool – because they’re sort of becoming very similar to SEMrush. I think that’s the idea – called Ubersuggest. It’s by a guy named Neil Patel. He’s a big content marketer. It’s UberSuggests.io. No affiliation. It’s just a free, really good keyword research, and site and analyzer tool. So you plug in your keywords, and it’ll come back with a bunch of information like how many people are searching for the keywords, how competitive they are in SEO. So when you’re trying to content to create, when you’re trying to come up with the title tag, and meta description, and what keywords do I use, it’s a good tool to kind of point you in the right direction. 

Mario Fachini [15:03]

Make sure we get a note of that. That’s awesome. Thank you very much. I’ve heard of SEMrush. I have not heard of the other one. But I’m familiar with Neil Patel. And legit. It’s something that I’ve been trying to improve. It’s better. But by no means, I mean, I’m half tempted if you were to look at everything what you’d say. But thank you for sharing that. So out of all the people you’ve been able to helped – clearly you know what you’re talking about – who would you say is your biggest success story? You don’t need to name them but tell me the story of what they were doing before they got in touch with you and then what was it like after working with you. 

Ryan Cote [15:41]

Yeah. Definitely, it’s a newish client. They’ve been with us for maybe four months now. We are doing print for them. It’s not really part of the marketing. They’re a custom iron door manufacturer. We sort of print for them. We print their catalogs, which is more of a handout at their place. But I wouldn’t say it’s initially part of what we do in the digital side. So we’re not blending print and digital together. But we are printing for them. But on the digital side, basically, he’s a homebuilder. And he bought this business. The guy was retiring and he was looking for someone to buy it. It was a family friend. He knew of him. And so he bought the business from him. And the guy, the iron door manufacturer, he had nothing going on in terms of marketing. He had a little website but no marketing whatsoever. And this guy was taking over. He had no idea but marketing. Obviously, he need to do something to get the sales going. And we met him at a trade show, hit it off with him, started working with him. And so we’re helping with this SEO, with his Google ads, his Facebook marketing, his content creation. We just started to do emails for him. And it’s been like a rocket ship. He’s getting so many leads now. And I must say, it’s like all us, like, we’re the greatest. I think it’s a combination that he nothing going on before and we’re doing all the right things. And he’s got a pretty in demand product right now a really good price. So you kind of put all those together and, I think, that’s what’s getting the results. But he’s getting so many of these now that we’re actually about to add a service where we’re going to help him manage the leads. Because he’s got his mom coming in to help build the calls. And there’s too much falling into the cracks now. So now, we’re basically a new service so we’re going to map out his lead generation. Like what happens when someone comes in? Who calls them? Then what? Sort of like a sitemap for the lead flow. And so that definitely stands out right now. 

Mario Fachini [17:30]

That’s fantastic. And what kind of first world problem is that? Like, we got to do a new service form because there’s getting too many leads. You know, it’s one of the things I love helping my clients with. Because when I first launched my company years ago, what I realized was I was getting clients quick, which I’m thankful for. But I was also like, “This post-it note and pen system isn’t going to cut it.” I tell people like your first five, fine. The next 10, nuh. The next 50, you’ve got a problem. So one of the things I’ve always been passionate about is the organization in the system side of stuff. And I’ve told people about Pipedrive for years. I’m sorry.  I’ve told people about CRM for a year. Yeah, Pipedrive for years now too. If you’re not using a CRM – and this just reminded me of it because I don’t know if he is or not. But whether you are or not, it’s just like anything with marketing. It’s an enhancement. You can have Facebook ads and all kinds of stuff. But if you don’t know what you’re doing and hitting the right levers, you know, I’ll give you some credit because you downplayed it. I think you are awesome. So that is a factor because you can hire any company to help you with any of this stuff. And they might not get you those results. Having the right offer you mentioned, that is also key. Having the right business, that’s on him. But when you do put it together, there’s people that are just so stubborn they don’t. “I can do this all on my own.” I was just talking about that. And reality is, no, you can’t. I mean, you’re only going to grow to a certain point if you’re trying to do everything on your own, even if you are the best at it. And it’s like, “Cool. You get to kill yourself.” Like, work 23 hours a day. Awesome. And I’m really – 

Ryan Cote [19:22]

[Unintelligible] [00:19:22]. 

Mario Fachini [19:23]

Yeah. Partner with people like yourself that can take this over and actually enjoy them. Enjoy them more. 

Ryan Cote [19:30]

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It’s been fun. 

Mario Fachini [19:35]

I’m sure he’s not the only one. So you mentioned something, he’s been with you for four months. Give me a timeline here. What should someone expect to see? Because I know there’s people listening going, “Oh, my gosh. This is awesome. We’re going to fix the meta tags. I’m going to fix all this stuff. And tomorrow night, I’m going to get more Facebook. I’m going to get more traffic than Facebook.” What is a reasonable expectation? You had mentioned he’s a new customer for four months with you. Is three to four typical? Were you seeing results in the first 30 to 60 days? What would you say is the norm? 

Ryan Cote [20:09]

I wouldn’t say – it all depends on the strategy. SEO, Search Engine Optimization, if you’d asked me that – if you asked me this question in, like 2010, I would have said like, “A month.” But nowadays, it could take a year, honestly, to get really – and his organic rankings are increasing. But we’ve got ways to go. It’s just the collective effort of all the channels that’s helping. But it could take a year to really get solid results with SEO. it depends on the niche, of course, and all that. But paid search, obviously, it’s quicker because you turn on the credit card and the traffic starts the same day. But it takes a couple months to really fine tune the campaigns, negative keywords, all that. I would say three months for that. Content, six months. So I would say if you’re going to go into either going to handle the digital yourself or you’re going to hire someone, I would say give it six to nine months before you throw in the towel. And give it a really solid effort for six to nine months because this stuff does take time. In his case, it happened quicker because we had all the pieces in play, like the good product and the good offer. And nothing going on before and just the right channels. But obviously, six to nine months. 

Mario Fachini [21:20]

And I already hear people going, “Well, that’s a long time.” And I just want to remind them, how long is your life? Don’t worry. It’s only your company. And if you didn’t start it before, maybe now is a good time because the time is going to go by either way. For the people that do implement it, what would you say they can expect? What are the benefits? Obviously, increase leads and traffic. But let’s add a ratio amount. Let’s say 12 months out, 10 percent, 20 percent, 30 percent? I mean, you gave a specific scenario with him. But what would you say is the range that’s a reasonable expectation after a year or two you can really jump your business up? 

Ryan Cote [22:07]

I mean, we see easily – like for automatic SEO, for example, after a year we see 100 percent gains. It’s a hard question to answer because it just depends on are we talking about a site that started from scratch? Are we talking about a domain that’s brand new and competitive? But yeah, we see gains on SEO easily 100 percent after 12 months. I think that’s realistic. Especially, if you’re adding content to the mix. We’re talking about SEO and content as separate strategies for small businesses. But really, nowadays especially, they’re really one and the same. We talk about them separately, but the SEO – I’m sorry – the content because we’re keyword optimizing all the content. And nowadays, you know, Mario, you can’t just throw up 300 words and call it a day like it used to be able to. It’s got to be beefy content, images, visually appealing piece of content, very informative, keyword optimized. So the content almost becomes an amplifier for the SEO. 

Mario Fachini [23:03]

I like what you were saying about interviewing people and bringing out their authority into the transcripts. I’ve heard that works pretty well too. 

Ryan Cote [23:13]

Yes. Yes. 

Mario Fachini [23:15]

I like what you’re saying about the 12 months, 100 percent gain. So six to nine months is too long, if you’re listening to us right now, is it not worth 100 percent gain 12 months out? I mean, how committed to your business are you? I’m just saying. 

Ryan Cote [23:35]

We should put an asterisk, results will vary. But yes. 

Mario Fachini [23:38]

Yeah. I mean, obviously – well, maybe not obviously. I’m not an attorney. I haven’t played one on TV yet. But it’s your business. Why would you just want to kick it with a stick? I can’t wrap my head around someone who wouldn’t want to do it full out. But I do like to set the expectation because I know there’s people going, “Well, I thought about it.” It’s like, “You thought about it well longer than just doing it and waiting.” 

Ryan Cote [24:03]

And if someone is asking me like, “Where do I get started?” I always say, “The best is content.” If you want it yourself, like, you have to learn paid search. You can waste a lot of money doing that. SEO is a really steep learning curve. But content creation, there’s so much you can do with it. You create the content, make sure it has the right keywords, and then you can put it on your social media. It’s all stuff that you could do. Like, thought leadership, almost. Go on podcasts like this. And then create content out of the actual audio or the video. So content is sort of the hub for a lot of this. And it’s something that it’s not easy to get started with. It takes time but it’s manageable for anyone to create content on their expertise. 

Mario Fachini [24:49]

It’s fun, too. It’s a lot of fun. I mean, if there’s one thing you’re going, “Well, I don’t know. It takes a lot of effort.” “Fine. Go cold call a thousand people. Tell me that’s more appealing to you getting yelled at people than talking to cool people and learning.” 

Ryan Cote [25:02]

Yeah. That’s true. 

Mario Fachini [25:04]

I’m going to behave a little bit. But also, it’s like I’m not going to sit here and not tell people the reality of it. I got a question for you.  So when we put your episode on EAInterviews.com, we make a nice graphic. It’s a 4k image. It looks awesome. It’s professionally edited. When you go into WordPress and you upload it, and it says all tag description and then the two other boxes, what should you be putting in there? How important is it compared to the page tagging itself? Like, in the naming convention itself. Because right now it’s like yours would be Episode Number_Ryan Cote_EA Interviews_4kFI – featured image. Is that the best keyword? Or should it be actually digital marketing, SEO, direct mail? 

Ryan Cote [26:00]

First off, I wouldn’t use underscores. Google prefers hyphens. That’s the first thing I would say. 

Mario Fachini [26:08]

Awesome. 

Ryan Cote [26:08]

So you’re talking about – so now, we’re coming on page optimization. So make sure that the keywords are in the right spot in the right page. And so the image, the alt tag you’re talking about, that’s one of the spots that we look at. So we make sure that the keyword is in the title, the meta description headline, first paragraph of the body, of the content, image tags. There’s a whole checklist that we follow. So in that box you’re talking about, I would worry about the alt tag, that’s the image tag. And you want it to have keywords. But don’t get too keyword stuffy. You don’t want to make it so obvious where you feel like you’re doing so much SEO. It feels unnatural. You want to make sure that the image filename has some keywords in it. And the alt tag has some keywords in it. But it needs to be descriptive of the image. You can include my name. I don’t think many people are searching for my name. But it would be relevant to the image. And then maybe Ryan Cote, Ryan-Cote – we’re talking about SEO so – SEO, and whatever else. Just don’t get too crazy with the keywords. You don’t want stuff to tags. 

Mario Fachini [27:08]

And you kind of just made my day great but also ruined it. Because now I’m thinking, do I have 150 episodes, we have to change all the underscores into hyphens. How big of a deal is it? 

Ryan Cote [27:18]

It’s not a big deal. Honestly, with SEO, there’s some things that make a big difference like link building, and load speed, for example, of your site. But then there’s a lot of things. Like a lot of little things add up to a lot of results, the image, the underscores, and image name, that’s going to be a teeny, teeny bit to your ranking [unintelligible] [00:27:37]. 

Mario Fachini [27:38]

But it would be worth doing? 

Ryan Cote [27:41]

If you want to check off all the boxes, yes. But I don’t think you’re going to see a huge boost if you change that. If you’re talking about like –

Mario Fachini [27:47]

It would be better to actually put title tags and meta descriptions on the actual episode pages than tweak all the images? 

Ryan Cote [27:54]

Yes. That would give you a bigger bang for your buck for sure. 

Mario Fachini [27:59]

Thank you. I’m sure you can tell which one of these are legit for me and other ones that people have asked me. You’re delivering massive value. I’m appreciative and I know others are too. I want to ask you a couple more things before we go to the Wheel of whatever and thank the sponsor. Let’s jump back to direct mail. We kind of went good with the digital marketing. Let’s go to the direct mail marketing. How pertinent is it would you say for most companies? I mean, obviously, there’s more of an investment with the printing and everything. But let’s talk to someone who hasn’t done it or has done it and not got the results they’re looking for. 

Ryan Cote [28:42]

If they’re not getting results, there’s a lot to look at. Obviously, the offer, the creative, who you’re sending it to. There’s a lot of things to look at. So I would do a deep dive into is it a compelling offer, who you’re mailing to, will they care about the offer, how does the peace look, what did you mail out, was it like a small little postcard, did you use an oversized postcard that takes more real estate up in the mailbox. And then the consistency. It’s not just one and done. You have to – usually with clients, especially on the direct mail side, we work with some huge clients. And they’re not just sending out one mail piece. There’s like [unintelligible] [00:29:22]. 

Mario Fachini [29:22]

They’re doing a campaign. 

Ryan Cote [29:23]

There’s a whole stream of them. Follow up pieces and it’s very, very complicated. Now, obviously, they’re working with bigger budgets. What I’m saying is, if you’re going to invest in direct mail – because it will be an investment – you figure the postage. I think the postage – I don’t want to give the wrong amount. My brother – 

Mario Fachini [29:38]

No, it’s okay. You don’t need to. But I mean, you have the actual postage, you’re paying for it per piece. And then the printing and then – 

Ryan Cote [29:46]

[Unintelligible] [00:29:46]. 

Mario Fachini [29:47]

Yeah. It’s not just an email. That’s 100th of a cent or whatever. You know, I love when people are like, “Well, they’re charging me more.” “Then do 10,000.” I go, “Do you know what they would cost in print?” 

Ryan Cote [29:58]

Yeah. But one thing I will say – and this is something I’m not an expert on but I I’ll mention it because I think it’s worth it for small businesses to look into it and we do it . I mentioned the contractor who does the quarterly postcards is what they do. It’s called Every Door Direct Mail. It’s a program from the USPS. I wouldn’t say it’s cheaper. You still have to pay for the print and the mail. And when I say mail, I mean the prep. Like the imaging of the address block on the mail piece. But the postage and the list is discounted. It depends on what zip code you’re mailing to and all that. But you’re basically just – you know, you’re paying a discounted rate for the list and for the postage. And you’d pay for print and mail. But the postage list is part of the campaign costs. So you are saving a lot of money. And it’s good if you are okay with just saturating a zip code. You’re not personally getting the person’s name. But if you know that – let’s say you’re a contractor and you know the zip code or whatever is a real hot spot for you. Any home is a good lead for you then you use Every Door Direct Mail into that zip and it saturates. Every mailbox gets your postcard. And it’s less money. 

Mario Fachini [31:08]

And correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that because they’re putting it in with the normal mail? It’s not considered a specialty piece, like you’re saying, my personal name and address and all that. It’s they drop it in with the other stuff. 

Ryan Cote [31:22]

Yeah. Yeah. You’re not getting names. The address block doesn’t say like, “Mr. Ryan Cote.” It will say, “To the homeowner of.” So you’re not getting the person’s name. You can’t personalize the piece. But the mail person is just putting it with their normal route. And every mailbox gets it in that zip that you order. But it’s a good way. 

Mario Fachini [31:40]

I love that you’re mentioning it because not everyone knows about it. And if you’ve never done anything, the same thing with an email campaign when I’m helping clients publish their books. You know, if you have a cold list, you need to warm it up. So even if you plan on doing a campaign, would you agree it’s probably smarter to at least send them something to let them have some brand recognition first? 

Ryan Cote [32:05]

Yeah. I mean, we recommend it. For our small business clients that don’t usually have the budget for direct mail, we’ll recommend it in the case of special occasions like a grand opening. The contractor, it makes sense because a kitchen remodel could a lot of money. So the ROI is not hard to justify. But we’ve got a kid’s therapist that’s looking to do it. And they’re starting a new location and they’re looking at their name out more. So they’re just considering different options and Every Door Direct Mail might be something they try, for sure. 

Mario Fachini [32:39]

That’s a great tip. And it’s exciting. I love this stuff because it’s like you’re figuring out a puzzle, essentially, and get to be creative with it. And it just baffles my mind when people go, “I don’t do direct mail.” Especially when, like you’re saying, they’re a contractor or a local restaurant. It’s like, “What else are you doing? You’re trying to compete with the attorney that’s running Facebook ads. Like, no one cares.” You have to think about who your client is and who your perfect prospect is. And go, “What are they doing?” I don’t know about you but do you base your restaurants off of what ad you got this afternoon? 

Ryan Cote [33:21]

Oh, yeah. There’s definitely a strategy involved. It reminds me, I was in a podcast, like six months ago, and the guy runs a garage door repair company. But he’s also involved with marketing. So he handles all the marketing for his company. He’s wildly successful with his garage door repair installation company. And he is also wildly involved with marketing. He just does everything to the nth degree with his marketing. And he’s just dominating the market. So it’s like, you don’t have to be that crazy, but you have to take advertising and marketing seriously. It doesn’t mean you need to hire an agency. But you have to do it yourself or hire someone to do it. Because it is important because your competitors are doing it. If you’re not doing it, how are you going to compete with them? I guess, if you do the best job in the world, referrals will come in. But you can’t rely on on that because you don’t really have as much control to a certain degree over referrals. 

Mario Fachini [34:19]

Yeah. And it’s so easy nowadays. It’s like, “Well, I can’t afford a an entire agency or someone” There’s plenty of people who can and they choose not to. That whole control freak thing I was talking about. And there’s so many ways to get that information, just listening to you share it – and thank you again – I mean, you given a lot of great ideas that anyone can put into practice. It’s do prioritize it or not. Or, “It’s not that important.” I’m going to behave. But yes, prioritize it. And if you’re not doing anything, just put it into action. Because the time is going to go by either way. And I’ll say this before we go to the Wheel of Whatever, give yourself a break. So you didn’t master it in a week. What have you mastered in life in a week? How long did it take you to ride a bike, drive a car, even start your company? Relax. 

Ryan Cote [35:11]

That’s actually a great – I mean, I’ve been in SEO for about 15 years now. Fifteen years and I’m still learning new things. It’s always changing. You’re exactly right, you have to have a long term perspective because it takes a while to really master something, especially if things are changing constantly, like marketing does. 

Mario Fachini [35:33]

It’s time for the thing I told you it was going to be. I kept it on track, didn’t I? 

Ryan Cote [35:38]

I’m nervous about this. Give me an easy question. I’m not good on the spot like this, especially live. 

Mario Fachini [35:44]

It’s going to be marketing related but it’s going to be, five to ten years from now, where do you see marketing going down the road? 

Ryan Cote [35:54]

Where do I see marketing going down the road? 

Mario Fachini [35:59]

And this one was kind of along the holograms and spaceships thing. Because you can turn anything into a marketing piece. But do you think there’s going to be a giant climactic shift? Or it’s just going to be a continuation of add on over the years? 

Ryan Cote [36:16]

Okay. There’s a few things that come to mind. We’re really seeing this now but like the reliance on one channel, you can’t do any more SEO. Even if you have a first spot ranking, it doesn’t mean as much anymore because the ads and everything else is pushing everything down. So you have to really diversify your channels and integrate everything. So I think the reliance on just one channel – and we’re already seeing this – it’s going to go away more and more. Voice search is obviously huge. All the devices that we have now, mobile, more and more. I wonder if websites are going to be around. I think in five years they will be. I hope so. That will be bad thing, like shocking, if websites weren’t as important anymore. 

Mario Fachini [36:53]

I think they’ll always be around. The whole internet is websites. Whether it’s an app or whatever, it all breaks down to me images, text, video, and code. 

Ryan Cote [37:04]

I think you’re right. And there’s always – everyone’s been saying direct mail is dead for years. Yet, we’re doing a lot of it. It isn’t dead. It’s just changing. Things change, you know. And so you’re right, I think the websites are going to be around. When I think about that, it freaks me out. But I’m like, “You know what? That’s just another one of those direct mail is dead situation. Where, now, it’s just going to change or we’re just going to have to adapt.” I don’t think I answered your question well but – 

Mario Fachini [37:26]

No. You did. Because I’ve heard that for email. I’ve heard that with Facebook ads. I’ve heard it _ I remember around 2010 people were like, websites are dead. And they start driving everyone to social. And I’m just thinking now because I’ve told people for years, make your own list, build the relationships, and it doesn’t matter where you’re marketing them to – where you’re marketing to them. And I’m thinking of someone, a great guy, great restaurant. They didn’t even have a website. They had the URL to drive to the Facebook page. That got kept. Facebook changed. Now, you have to basically pay for ads, the reach has gone down. And I’m thinking, how many years could you have been building up your own site, your own list with organic? Now, also do the Facebook but they used – I mean, look at Myspace. What if you put five years and thousands of dollars into Myspace? It might not go away. But you got to admit, it’s changed a lot in the last five to eight years. I mean, you used to be able to post anything in the world and everyone saw it. And now even if you pay for it, it’s like, “What the heck?” 

Ryan Cote [38:30]

Yeah. Definitely things change. Like, Facebook organic reaches out not nearly as much as it used to be. But it surprises me – you made me think of something. It surprises me how little restaurants asked for cell phones or email addresses. I mean, my wife and I go out to eat fairly regularly. I can’t think of the last time someone has asked me for my cell phone or for my email address. I mean, what’s the offer where I would give it to them. Maybe like coupon for the next – I have to think about that. But very rarely do they ask and it’s just shocking to me. 

Mario Fachini [39:06]

It’s also a goldmine. Because I have a couple restaurant clients to this day that have been with me for over ten years. And when I was focusing on them years ago, I had a review generator I did with them. And the same thing, I was like, how many – because I was like, “You got the foot traffic. You got people in. How many people are asking?” No one was. And I go, “Let’s do this.” It was paper. A sheet of paper. So if you’re listening and you have a restaurant, you really need to make a point of this. And if you don’t have a restaurant, it doesn’t really matter. Truthfully, if you’re not getting reviews and asking your customers, it was just this little thing that asked for what did you think of the meal? I’m not talking Google. I’m not talking – you could do stuff you can do with your cell phones. Just think of the logic of this. I go, “Let’s generate some good reviews for you.” And it’s not like they didn’t have them. There’s, like, five and they get 2,000 people a week through there. Like, the numbers didn’t add up. “Well, how are we going to get everyone to do this incentivize? It’s part of my process”. And I go, “Can you get some of the waitresses and waiters over here?” We’re sitting at the booth and I go, “Are you guys open to asking a question when you come back for the check?” They go, “Yeah.” I go ask them this, “What would you like for your free dessert?” “What do you mean?” “Oh, we have a special going on right now. If you just fill out this paper.” And hand it to them. They’re in a restaurant. This isn’t online. They’re not going anywhere. They still have to pay. “All you got to do is just tell us what you thought of your meal and everything and I will bring you a free dessert. So which one do you want?” They generated 300 reviews in one weekend. And I asked him – actually that was one client. I was thinking of the other one, he generated 60 or 80. It was a single location. This other one that did the 300, I go, “Was that between your four restaurants?” He goes, “No. That was the downtown one.” He only did it in one of the four he owns. And I was like, “Holy smokes.” And I checked back periodically and they’re still there. If you want to generate content, you got foot traffic coming in every day. And that’s with paper. And now, if you couple that with, you know, all the other stuff you do, that’s a form of direct mail advertising. 

Ryan Cote [41:39]

Yeah. That increases the meta data. It may sound daunting but – 

Mario Fachini [41:42]

Who wouldn’t want that on a postcard to send out? Here’s what the last 15 people said this week. You could send a direct mail every week with new new reviews on it. 

Ryan Cote [41:53]

And it’s social proof. 

Mario Fachini [41:56]

Don’t even get me started on that. I mean, yeah, I mean, you get it. 

Ryan Cote [42:00]

Yeah. Yeah, reviews are very important to me. You know, we try to get them for our own company. And clients are always was saying, “Get more reviews. Get more views.” Because it just helps everything. You know, when someone Google’s your name – usually, they Google my business, it’s shown on the right side. And that’s your name, your address, and your reviews. So it sort of pre-sells the person for them to visit your site. So it’s really important. 

Mario Fachini [42:24]

One hundred percent. And anyone can be doing paper. If you want a daunting task, I don’t think it’s daunting, but I encourage everyone to get video reviews. Because the people can dispute, “Well, you know who’s Bob Sally? Mike?” It’s written. You could pay the pay the chef or someone or hire someone for 10 bucks an hour just to create crap. But when they’re on video, no one is disputing it. And when you got 50 to 100 plus of them, they’re like, “There’s no way you paid this money actors.” Especially, when you do it over years. 

Ryan Cote [43:01]

Yeah. One thing we have not done is video reviews. That’s really powerful if you can get them. 

Mario Fachini [43:06]

So I’ll ask you the question before we’re going to the sponsor. But what could you incentivize your customers with to get them on video? Because, like the story of the contractor you just shared here, if you had him saying it or even make a demo video with it. And keep doing that one out of even every four clients. That’s when it gets real fun.

Ryan Cote [43:33]

So YouTube and all that stuff. So – 

Mario Fachini [43:36]

Oh, yeah. Video is my little playground. So I got all kinds of ideas for that. But we’re going to keep it on point because I’m really good at keeping it structured, which is my own personal victory because this is not how I grew up. But we’re going to thank the sponsor and we’re going to come back for the Imperfect Action Round. 

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Mario Fachini [45:08]

And we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. Ryan, are you ready to take imperfect action? 

Ryan Cote [45:13]

Absolutely. Let’s do it. 

Mario Fachini [45:18]

First question – I know you know what it is – 

Ryan Cote [45:19]

I do. 

Mario Fachini [45:20]

What is the fastest path to the cash? 

Ryan Cote [45:23]

I’m going to say focus. Please listen to a podcast by John Lee Dumas. And he would always say focus. Follow one course until success. And I’ve seen that with my own down time here, where you don’t let yourself get diluted or distracted. Just focus. And that’s the fastest way and the shortest way to cash. 

Mario Fachini [45:43]

I agree 100 percent. John is a good friend of mine. And he reminds me of that also. And also put in the reps. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way they can fix it? 

Ryan Cote [46:00]

Yes. I sort of alluded to this before, a typical client for us that comes on board or prospect there, they’re a small business but they’re dabbling in all these different channels, like social and content, SEO, and paid search. And they’re not weaving them all together. They’re not integrating them. And the same time rising tide lifts all boats. I think that’s what it is. It is absolutely true. You want to make sure that like, for example, SEO, if you’re doing SEO. Because you’re doing all those channels, you have an advantage because you can, like I said, weave them together and get better results. So for example, like SEO and Google ads, they all are run from keywords. And so with PPC, the traffic is quicker. You’re going to get that keyword data coming in faster. And you bring that over to SEO. And then you have keywords optimized for SEO. And then both those keyword ideas you can translate into content topics for blogs, content topics for your social media calendar. Obviously, remarketing fits into all this. So if you’re doing all these channels, make sure that you are mapping it out? “Here’s what I’m doing. How can I weave these all together to get better results?” 

Mario Fachini [47:06]

Excellent. Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value? 

Ryan Cote [47:12]

Sure. I mean, for me, the obvious choice is, obviously, get them results. From the video, it’s heavy support and communication. So biweekly phone calls with our clients at a bare minimum. We really surround them so they feel our support. And I would also say, maximize what you can help them with. Don’t sell them something they don’t need. Like I mentioned, the iron door manufacturer, we’re selling him a new service to help him with his CRM and his lead flow and that then allow – he absolutely needs it. It’s going to make him more money. So always think about what other services you can offer to your clients that they need and that will help them. 

Mario Fachini [47:46]

Excellent. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that. I have one other question. What books would you recommend that have made a big difference in your business? 

Ryan Cote [48:03]

I like – I mean, I probably said this a billion times in your show, but How to Win Friends and Influence People. It seems like it’s a timeless book, I’ve read it probably about five times. There’s so much gold in there. I really like that one. I like the Compound Effect by Darren Hardy. Because it reminds me that, every day you’re trying to get small victories. And sometimes it doesn’t really feel like you’re making progress. But there are things compound and you might not see. And then when you look out 30 days back, it’s like, “Okay. Yeah. Actually, I made a lot more progress.” It’s a nice reminder.  The book has a lot of detail about it. 

Mario Fachini [48:43]

Well, those are two great recommendations. And I appreciate you for sharing them with Expert Authority world. Where can they find more? 

Ryan Cote [48:52]

Absolutely. So first of all, Mario, thanks for having me on the show. Everyone, thanks for listening. And so we set up a special landing page for your audience, where on there they can connect with me on LinkedIn. And that’s not the exciting part. The exciting part is, there’s an offer for a free video review where I will personally go through the website, go through their SEO, their social media. It’s like a ten minute screen share. Just giving them whatever tips I see that I think are worth mentioning. If you go to Ballantine.com/ExpertAuthority, you’ll have it all there – all that information. 

Mario Fachini [49:25]

That is fantastic. I’m going to head on over there because I’m curious – well, you piqued — like, legit when we’re talking about the images and stuff, I’m like, “Crap. I got to change these. No. Don’t waste your time on it.” And it’s an important thing to do because it’s not my area of expertise. If you want to get a business book published or do a video production, let’s talk. But that stuff I’ve avoided for every – and we’ve done websites for people and they go, “Well, what do you have for SEO packages?” I go, “None. And I don’t want them.” I was very specific. And I’ve seen some great company. Just they tried to take on everything and it just crumbles because you’re doing everything. Let’s say, partway wasn’t my first thought. But thank you for providing that. I’m not joking. You’ll probably see mine come through in the next day or two. 

Ryan Cote [50:14]

Absolutely. 

Mario Fachini [50:17]

Well, thank you for coming on. I appreciate you sharing all the Expert Authority insights. 

Ryan Cote [50:23]

Thank you. Thanks, Mario. Thanks for having me. 

Mario Fachini [50:25]

All right. Expert Authority world, we have another great episode here. I’ll see you on tomorrow’s Have a great day. And God bless. 

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www.EAInterviews.com [51:23]

Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven’t done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.