0135: Everything is a Presentation with Michael Angelo Caruso

Intro [0:00]

EA Interviews Episode 135. Inspiration, transformation, success stories, and the Imperfect Action Round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview. 

Mario Fachini [0:13]

Presentations, business, storytelling, all of these are important. But do you know how to do it properly? I’m excited to have Michael Angelo Caruso on the show today. He’s a great guy. I’ve been in many of his presentations. And have known him for, probably, going on – what do you think? Like a decade now? I think it was, like, 2009 or ’10. It’s hard to believe. But he’s going to teach you how to present like a pro. If you have any business and you’re not speaking, you should. And if you are, you better be leveling up your game. I’m excited to bring him up right after we thank our sponsor. 

SPONSOR Pipedrive [0:51]

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Mario Fachini [1:04]

Here he is Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Michael Angelo Caruso. Michael, how are you feeling today? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [1:10]

Hey, Mario. I’m feeling pretty good. How are you? 

Mario Fachini [1:12]

I’m having a great day. Excited for you to share with Expert Authority World. Tell us, how did you get into speaking? Next to death, it’s like number two of what people fear the most. So why do you decide to make a career out of it? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [1:26]

Well, I came up through the music business. So we tasted death early on, my brothers and I. Were on stage all over North America on the college circuit. We opened for acts like Rick Springfield, Corey Hart, Joan Jett. We had a strange gig with Foghat one time. And we got used to being on stage. When the band ended, I had a transitory type of career – job, I should say, in the telecommunications industry. I went from being on stage and very public environment to working in a call center doing 50 outbound calls a day. And I quickly realized it wasn’t me. And then when my father died in 1997-ish, I realized that I was going to die one day soon enough and I should really do what I want to do for a living. And that’s when I quit my job and started the speaking business. 

Mario Fachini [2:24]

Just like that, you woke up and quit? I mean, was there any lead up? Or was it really a split decision and you just – a lot of people think that’s scary. How did you just do it so quick? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [2:36]

Well, certainly it was scary. You know, I’m giving you the shorter version. But in any experience, there’s like this teeter totter, this pain pleasure thing that’s going on. I was in pain in the job. It was the perfect job, I wouldn’t have left but I was in pain. And when my father passed, he was my second parent to die. And I just realized life is so short. You really need to do what we’re meant to do. And I finally decided to man up and put my big boy pants on and hang my own shingle just to see what could happen. Fortunately, I’ve been in the music business, I understood a little bit about what it takes to create a calendar. And I had also had a chance to test market my presentations in the speaking business because I was showing up at trade shows doing soft skills like time management and leadership and that sort of thing. And that was the start of it all. Looking back, maybe it was kind of silly for me to do that. But it was a different time. I was younger. And it’s easy to look in the rearview mirror and say, “Yeah. I should have done that.” But at the time, it was a risky thing to do. You’re right. 

Mario Fachini [3:49]

How are you feeling now looking back? Are you glad you did it? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [3:53]

Well, I went to the dentist today and my mouth is a little sore. But other than that, I’m feeling great. Yeah, you know, the feedback has been extraordinary. I’ve now spoken on five continents, 49 of the 50 states. I’ve got books and audio programs and video programs in people’s homes all over the world. I have a crazy successful online presented like a pro course where I’m helping other people now learn their business, which I find to be very gratifying. And so like it’s really good man. If you think of it like a four-legged barstool of social, life, health, occupation or vocation, and then avocation, I’m on about a solid. We have a bar stool on which you can be on and be drinking at the same time. 

Mario Fachini [4:43]

Well, I’m happy to hear that and congrats on your success. You also reminded me, I’m going to the dentist in a couple of days myself. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [4:53]

You’re welcome for that. 

Mario Fachini [4:54]

I’m actually looking forward to it. It’s for teeth cleaning. So that way everyone still wants to watch the show. What have been some of – you know, I’ll ask you that in a second. Tell me about some of the things that people can do to improv and present like a pro. Because there’s a ton of speakers out there and maybe they’re professional, maybe they’re not, maybe they’re in organizations, maybe they’re not. I mean, for anyone who doesn’t know if you want to speak, you can go speak there. There’s no degree or anything you need but there’s varying degrees – that’s kind of cool – there’s varying degrees of how good people are. What do you find most people are doing wrong that they could be doing better? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [5:41]

Well, wrong is a heavy word but – 

Mario Fachini [5:44]

What do you think they could do to improv? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [5:47]

Well, I say wrong is a heavy word because they’re not actually incorrect when they do whatever I’m about to tell you. But everybody has trouble with this because it’s so hard to do. And that is to be natural in front of people. I mean, just think about this. The reason we’re not natural is because the central nervous system is under siege. You’re either going to get the good kind of stress or the bad kind of stress. So the good kind of stress is if you’re a professional volleyball player and your balls coming toward you and you know you’re going to set up the person next to you and you know exactly what to do. It’s still a form of stress but it’s the good kind of stress. The bad kind of stress is, “Oh, my God. I’m not really that good of a speaker. And there’s a bunch of people out here waiting for me to wow them. Oh, my God.” And then they go into all kinds of other unnatural things. But here’s the thing, when you’re natural, you’re authentic. When you’re authentic, you’re believable. And when you’re believable, your call to action will fire. But if there’s a breakdown along the way in any of those stations, your CTA, your call to action, becomes diminished and you’re screwed. If you were there to sell stuff, you won’t sell as much stuff. If you were there to help people, you want to help as many people. If you were there to get laughs, not so much. So when I say it’s hard or wrong – when we say it’s wrong, it’s technically wrong. But fixing it, becoming natural, is the right thing to do. But how do you do that? That’s the secret sauce. 

Mario Fachini [7:24]

Is there an easy way to do it? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [7:27]

No. It’s not easy. I guess for some people, it’s easy. But for most of us, it becomes a study. 

Mario Fachini [7:36]

What I’m hearing is practice. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [7:39]

Yeah. But what do you practice? Being natural? You see the mind trouble there. So one of the things you can practice are called mechanics. And you know this because I’ve seen you speaking enough events and you have this. 

Mario Fachini [7:57]

Thank you. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [7:58]

But the idea of practicing the correct speaking mechanics which would get you in the right place. I’ll give you an easy example of that. When I’m speaking to you now, I’m sending you two types of signals. I’m sending you verbal signals and I’m sending you nonverbal signals. So verbals what comes out of my mouth. But nonverbal is the point to my mouth, the sense of confidence, and how I presented to you verbally – or visually, I should say. And there’s an old saying that people believe what you do over what you say. So, the nonverbal signals cannot be under emphasized. Well, what happens when your verbal signals don’t match your nonverbals? You have something called discontinuity, and then you’re a mess. And so one of the things I go to work on with my students right away is this continuity between what they say and what they do. Everybody practices what to say in a speech. But very few people practice what to do. True? 

Mario Fachini [9:05]

I agree. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [9:06]

I mean, we’ve got our speech or our talking points and we practice the hell out of it. But when do you move? When do you gesture? What expression do you have on your face at certain junctures of that speech? I mean, all that stuff should be in the speech almost like a talking point. And that’s how you get continuity – time to do that. 

Mario Fachini [9:28]

Interesting. So you definitely pique my interest with this. So when you’re taking them through your training, are there some elementary building blocks? For examples, stance, leg width, how you’re standing, where your shoulders are, chin up, smiling. Are there basic things you start with? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [9:49]

Yeah. I think a good thing to start with is something called countenance. We heard Ben Franklin talk about it a lot. He wrote about it a lot. The great Miles Davis, the trumpet player, called it carriage. It’s just how you walk into a room. It’s how you step onto the speaker platform. We call it a platform because in many cases when we’re speaking, we don’t actually have a stage. So it’s that area of the room that you start to make your own. But I think it starts way before that, Mario. I think it’s actually how you walk into the room. Because people are looking at you all the time. It’s funny, we talked about living in an age where we don’t judge. You hear this phrase a lot, “I’m not judging. No judgment.” But please tell me you know you’re being judged all the time. Especially by the people that say that they don’t have any judgment. I don’t know about you but I use judgment every day. And I’m especially using it when somebody hits the speaking platform. I’m deciding whether or not the person’s educated. I’m deciding whether or not I like their outfit. I’m deciding whether or not they have something of value for me. I’m deciding whether or not they’re vague. And that’s just in the first 30 seconds. The judgment gets even deeper as they move into the program and start to present evidence or documentation or facts about their content. And I’m weighing every one of them. Does that sound vaguely familiar to me? Does it sound something like something I could do? And all of these are little rabbit holes that the speaker can go down and never recover from the 20 minute keynote? 

Mario Fachini [11:34]

Is there anything that you see people do in the beginning that they don’t do in the end? So maybe they come on real strong and start off powerful and then slip away from it? Do you have any advice on how to maintain it through whole presentation? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [11:53]

Yeah. I think it’s fair to say that every presentation should have a CTA or call to action. So, the whole reason you’re there is some sort of call to action. Even if it’s a safety program, the call to action is don’t get hurt. If it’s a sales program, buy my product. If it’s a motivational program, go out and be the best person you can be. Try to be in a good mood every day. Be a good role model. So it’s always about asking people to do something. So if the entire – as the French call it the raison d’etre, the reason for the speech is the call to action. Then all roads lead to the call to action. And I would be – if I’m crafty as a presenter, I would be planting seeds the entire way that was Germany in that 20 minute keynote and help you understand that the call to action is not only in your best interest but it’s undeniable. So you can imagine how many moving parts there are in a 20 minute keynote if my very thing that comes out of my mouth at the very beginning is already a harbinger of things to come in terms of the call to action. So it’s not just my talking points. It’s not just slides 1 through 12. It’s not just my expression and how I’m communicating with you. It’s all of it. And all roads lead to the call to action. It’s a hefty proposition. Think of it like a piece of sushi. I don’t know if you eat sushi. 

Mario Fachini [13:30]

Absolutely. Spicy tuna. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [13:33]

That’s right. A piece of sushi is designed to have a bunch of different flavors that hit different areas of your mouth at different times. There’s a part of your mouth that resonates with salt. There’s another one for sugar, another one for temperature. The roof of your mouth feels the food differently than your tongue does. And, of course, all the textures. And sushi is very carefully crafted to deliver that chased payload, right? And I think a message, a speech, is the same thing. Whether it’s a pop up presentation in a group meeting, a 20 minute keynote, or a three hour workshop. It’s all the same. 

Mario Fachini [14:16]

So what do you do when you get to the call to action? They’ve done the first and second part right so far. Now, they’re at the call to action. And this is a part you can either nail or completely screw everything up with also. How does one prepare to deliver a good call to action? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [14:36]

Well, you know, I do a lot of sales training. And then in the sales training, we’re talking about something called the trial clause. Now, the trial clause are these, like, shallow versions of the call to action that precede the call to action. In a 30 minute sales call, I might do two or three trial clauses. And the trial clause is just set up to make sure that my GPS is calibrated properly and that I got your attention, that we’re moving down the right path and that you’re with me. So trial clause sound like something like this. “Does this make sense to you?” They’re always yes questions. Does this make sense to you? And I would actually nod my head yes. Now, people who don’t speak that are watching our session today, this little interview, are thinking to themselves, “This guy is crazy. That cornball stuff can’t possibly work.” But it works like a charm, especially in the hands of a good speaker or in the mouth of a good speaker. So the trial clause, there’s a million of them. And you can use different ones for different personalities. If you have a lot of women in the audience, a lot of empathic people who are emotionally based, you might say, “How does this feel to you so far?” But if you have a lot of cerebral people in the audience, engineers for example, you might say, “What do you think of this? Does this – do you think this could work?” So I keep using language and nonverbals that would appeal to the type of people I’m trying to message in that particular presentation. Podcasts are hard because we don’t know exactly who’s listening. But at the American Association of Engineers, I can promise you that we’re looking at a bunch of cerebral folks who are linear thinkers and they’re looking for a lot of statistics and facts. 

Mario Fachini [16:35]

How do you find that information if you don’t know it? I know you know it because you’ve been doing it a while but for someone that’s not as far along as you – 

Michael Angelo Caruso [16:46]

Yeah. What kind of information are you talking about? 

Mario Fachini [16:53]

As far as the audience. If someone is speaking to the association of contractors versus engineers versus pottery artists, those are different demographics. How many personality types should you account for? And how do you find which one your audience is? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [17:11]

Well, I’m a big fan of Dr. Tony Alessandra, you probably know him. He’s been talking about the Platinum Rules for a long time. Platinum Rule is the antithesis of the golden rule. Tony works with only four personalities, the four personalities are – these are in every audience, right? The relator, the thinker, the socializer, and the director. So a lot of the personality assessments will tell you that there are a lot more than 4,16, 32. But for our purposes, when we’re teaching presentation skills, it’s just four types of people in the room, usually. And once I understand who the four personalities are and how many I have in the room, I can calibrate and work my presentation almost in real time. So I might have a speech that I’m delivering, but I would recalibrate in real time for that particular audience. And I would do that by, again in real time, adjust, say, the yin and the yang of what I’m presenting. Cerebral people in the room, thinkers in the room, might be looking for a lot of statistics and factoids. Whereas, non-thinkers – it sounds bad to say it like that, doesn’t it? But people who are emotionally based are interested in stories. So I would use fewer bullet points, for example, and tell more stories. Now, I never abandon stories completely because stories are very impactful. And even with the most cerebral audience, a good story goes a long way. But it’s that yin and the yang, numbers versus letters, stories versus bullet points, conversation versus a linear PowerPoint presentation. And all these are just micro decisions that I make in real time. Another thing I do is called the reverse presentation. Where in a smaller group setting, I might get the other person to tell me his presentation before I go [unintelligible [00:19:12]. And that’s powerful. That’s why every presentation should have a few of these – I call them icebreakers. But it should be purposeful. Or I take a quick straw poll of the audience. “How many people in the audience like to do this? Great. Hands up. How many people recognize this? Thank you very much.” And maybe a third one. And the third one’s always the one that gets the biggest response from the audience. So we do things in threes. The third one is always the best or the funniest or the most interesting. And then after doing that initial survey, I have a litmus test of who exactly I’m dealing with in the audience. And then I can again calibrate my content moving forward. I told you earlier that it’s best to be natural. So how can I be natural if I’m a slave to the PowerPoint presentation. I have to move sequentially through these slides, which were pre-ordained. And that’s why I haven’t used PowerPoint in eight or nine years now. 

Mario Fachini [20:19]

What do you think about – have you ever used just images? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [20:25]

Yes. I love that because I’m not slave to the bullet points and so on. I’m still slave to the sequence of the images. But maybe that’s not a bad thing. You know, my favorite PowerPoint tool, Mario, is B (for black). Because I can just make the screen go black and just start free for me and work their crowd in a natural, authentic way. You know, I came through the music business and we talked about two types of musicians. People who play orchestra or they played from a music. They read the music. So they’re classically trained. They never leave the music. There’s other people playing the same music. We’re all following the conductor. That kind of musician versus a jazz musician. Notice just chord progression. And because he knows his horn and because he’s free to improv – improvisation, it’s a much different style of music. It’s freer. It’s looser. Jazz has been more popular than classical music. Almost since it’s been invented. And for that reason, it feels freer. It feels more natural. And so while I appreciate and can read music, I’m much more of a jazz improv artist on stage. And that is a hard thing to teach people to do, improv. 

Mario Fachini [21:58]

I would – I’m very much the same way. I play the sax and piano. So if it’s the classical side, the piano is great. But the sax is a lot of fun. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [22:09]

You bet. 

Mario Fachini [22:10]

You can just do what you want. And then same for, for speaking. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [22:15]

Sax, in some ways, is the more popular instrument. The saxophone almost always gets the solo. There’s piano in every song but you cannot hear it sometimes. The sax is never hidden. It’s always upfront. The sax is the one that – the piano has a note. You hit the note G, bing, bing. It’s always the same. But with the saxophone, you can slide it up to the note, you can slide down to the note, you can bend the note. That’s interesting to me. 

Mario Fachini [22:45]

So your style, I think – and maybe it’s why I like it and I’m biased, but it gives you the freedom to interact with the audience and actually add the value to them instead of being – I remember some people, there was an issue with the PowerPoint projector and they just stopped everything until it was fixed. I was like, “Dude make something up.” Really? You know your material that little that you can’t just say the next bullet point here.” 

Michael Angelo Caruso [23:15]

No. That’s the thing, slave to the projector. There’s a famous story about President Bill Clinton giving a very important speech and the teleprompter shut down. And he continued on as if there was no teleprompter at all. And that’s the mark of a really good communicator. We saw a similar 

fluidity for President Reagan. Not everybody has the ability to do this. But when they have it, they appreciate it so much. It’s like a gift. Now, it doesn’t guarantee that all the factoids are going to be in place. That’s when you start discarding statistics and that sort of thing. But you know, let’s face it, most of us know our material pretty well. Martin Luther King has been credited with delivering the “I had a dream” speech in front of the Washington Monument as if it was some sort of master work. But anybody that has studied his speech knows that he given components to that speech for months and months and months in advance. It just happened to be that timing was recorded and people like to date and name stuff. So it became the “I had a dream” speech on such and such day. But component – 

Mario Fachini [24:33]

But it wasn’t his first one. 

Michael Angelo Caruso :2[4:37]

What’s that? 

Mario Fachini [24:36]

It wasn’t his first one. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [24:38]

Well, it wasn’t the first time he had delivered various components of that. He knew he had all of these doubles and triples and homeruns. But finally, they coalesce on this particular day. And now, it’s the “I had a dream” speech. And calling it the “I had a dream” speech has a much more power and gravitas than just saying Martin Luther King was a hell of a speaker. But he made no mistake. So all of those components came from a body of work. And I’ll bet he gave a version of the “I had a dream” speech after that, too. But nobody talked about it after that because it served everybody to have it be a master work, a command performance on that particular day. But all of us – you have your bits. I worked like a comedian in bits. And when I tell a joke to an audience, if I’m keynoting on Saturday night, I’m going to tell that joke as if I’m telling it for the very first time. And I’m going to enjoy the hell out of it. And when you go see REO Speedwagon play on Saturday, they’re going to play Roll With The Changes as if they’re playing it for the very first time for you. But it’s part of their body of work. It’s going to be a little bit different each night. The mix is different every night. But if you go see – if you become a groupie for REO Speedwagon – if you do, God help you. But if you go see them on the number of occasions, you’ll see that it’s basically the same every single night. Because it’s got a delivery system now, just like all good speeches. Most presenters though they get enough practice, don’t you agree? 

Mario Fachini [26:17]

For sure. There’s so many people that go out one or two times. And, you know, now they’re a speaker. It’s like, you got to – I, personally, think you got to go out dozens and dozens, if not hundreds, screw up enough to know what works, what doesn’t, test it out. You know, I tell my authors and entrepreneurs the same thing when I’m helping them with their business. It’s like, “What’s the best way to do this?” “Here’s what I found has a high level of success, but your audience is vastly different. This is going to get you about 80, 90 percent. But you got to test this out. Ask your audience. Get some feedback and refine it.” Now, what a lot of people think is it’s going to take forever if I do all that work. No. You do it quick one day at a time. Not a month at a time. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [27:03]

A hundred percent. And the people that go up three or four times, you know, they get just about to the place where they might be learning from their own presentations. And then they change the presentation. They swap it out or they get bored or they want to do another title or another topic. This is one of the digs that Seinfeld has about a lot of comedians. He says, “They don’t take the time to truly cultivate the material.” Like, most presenters should have what’s called the signature story. They should have several. And it only becomes a signature story after you tell it about 500 times. It’s not a signature story because you tell it five times. And what happens in those 500 times, you tell it using different links. A good signature story doesn’t have to be any longer than two minutes. So try it at [2:15]. Try to get it down to a-minute-and-three quarters. What happens when you use a certain introduction for it? What happens when you accentuate certain words during the signature story? Or do a gesture on a certain word? What happens when you pause between certain words? Again, all those flavors of the sushi being adjusted until it tastes perfect? And then that’s the story you tell when you go on NPR. 

Mario Fachini [28:28]

Well, you’re giving a lot of great Expert Authority insights and I appreciate that. Tell me what is your biggest transformation story from one of your students that you’ve helped refine and go through this process? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [28:40]

I think most of my students have trouble with mindset. It’s not about speaking at all. In the six week present like a pro course online, we spend the first week just on mindset. This idea that you have to think about yourself differently. Most presenters that are doing it for money are way under Christ. They could be making a shit ton more money than they are. Not that money is the whole reason for doing it. But if you’re going to buy an airplane ticket and get on a plane to fly someplace for 1,000 bucks and you could be doing it for 2,000 bucks, why don’t you move into that area. So not just the value of the speech but also the content of the speech, what you’re capable of doing in a 20 minute presentation is far greater than what you’re exercising currently, is my experience. And so I just try to get into their head and try to help them understand that they’re just at the tip of the iceberg in terms of how many people they’re helping, the quantity and quality of care that they’re providing for people if they’re in sales or education or whatever. And then try to get them to understand what’s possible. I think that’s a big, big thing that most speakers need to address early on. 

Mario Fachini [29:59]

How many people would you say where are they at when – 

Michael Angelo Caruso [30:03]

By the way, transformational. Not informational. Right? When people call me they say, “Well, I just need a couple of tips.” And I say, “Well, I don’t do tips. If you want tips, just Google it, man. I thought you were serious.” And then they’re like, “Whoa. I thought – you told me you only had one speaking engagement each month for the last six months.” “If I give you tips, you’re only going to have one gig next month and the month after that.” So I asked them, “Do you want information or do you want transformation?” And almost everybody wants transformation and then we go to work. So again, that’s mindset. Getting straight on exactly where you are and exactly where you want to be. 

Mario Fachini [30:47]

Would you say most of them are at 40, 50, 60 percent? Or they’re at 70, 80? Do they need just a few tweaks with the mindset or is it like a complete 180? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [30:58]

Yeah. I haven’t met anybody yet that couldn’t improve from – I don’t know if you can talk about this mathematically- but improve 80 percent. Let’s just say it this way, they’re at 20 percent of what they’re capable of. And I’m not talking about, you know, four years of college education. I’m not talking about getting a degree. I’m not talking about spending thousands and thousands of dollars in gear and lessons. I’m just talking about pivoting and a couple of key areas in the mindset and the shortcuts that I show them. That’s the magic right there. When we get all that stuff in a crockpot, it starts to smell pretty good, pretty quickly. 

Mario Fachini [31:40]

I agree. It’s delicious. So I got to ask you before we go to our Imperfect Action Round, who is an entrepreneur you’d love to have dinner with after you’ve been speaking on stage with them? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [32:00]

An entrepreneur that I love to have dinner with after sharing the platform? So this is somebody that’s in the speaking business? Somebody maybe that I’ve seen present? 

Mario Fachini [32:11]

Yes. You just, maybe, don’t know them yet. Maybe haven’t spoke with them. But it’s not just they a “Hi. Nice to meet you.” You actually get to hang out afterwards. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [32:19]

Okay. Well, at least top of mind right now, I don’t know that a lot of time to come up with the answer for this. And I’m not even in the actual round yet. But I know that Aaron Sorkin, the prolific writer, director, creator of West Wing, is doing a MasterClass now online. And I watched whistling once in a while to get inspired because it’s such a well-crafted show. The writing and the speaking and the delivery, there’s a lot of presentation tricks used on the show. I think he’d be a fun cat to have dinner with. 

Mario Fachini [32:57]

I do like him. And I did see – there’s a lot of great people in the MasterClass. That’s a good reference there. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [33:04]

Yeah. What do they charge you for that? Is it varied price for everybody? Do you know? 

Mario Fachini [33:09]

It’s usually between 100 or 200 depending on the time of year. There’s sometimes a buy one, get one or buy one, get one – not buy one, get one. But get the full year for the court price of one. It just depends when you’re looking at it. But there’s – just like every business, there’s a today only until next week and we change the name of the sale and it’s something different. Black Friday only then the sale goes off for Sunday. And then, oh, Cyber Monday, same deal. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [33:37]

When I think about MasterClasses and online learning and live presentations, even song lyrics, you know, I just tweeted a song lyric from Barry Manilow, of all people. I learn from everybody. I’ve learned from you. In a little pre-roll, I was learning about production values and learning interview style from you right now. And you’re asking fantastic questions. And unlike a lot of people who interview, your questions are actually shorter than the answers. How refreshing. 

Mario Fachini [34:09]

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [34:11]

The Barry Manilow lyric is from a song. I just turned on the radio the other day and I was riding in the car with Rene and I’m a patsy for all that soft rock stuff, especially if it’s got a meaningful lyric. The song was I made it through the rain. And at this stage in my life as a teacher now, as a mentor for some people who are coming up, the lyric was, “I made it – “let’s see. “I made it through the rain and found myself respected by the others who got rained down, too, and made it through.” And I almost had to pull the car over. I wanted to play the song again later by myself and really listen to it. So I love meter. I love pentameter. I love words and how they fit together. I love words and I love the word combinations. And I’m just delighted to share it with your audience today. Thank you for asking. 

Mario Fachini [35:18]

Well, I’m glad you’re sharing it because I think there’s a lot of people who enjoy music and they just think it’s, “Oh, I’d love to go to their concert. I’d love to hear their CD.” And, you know, for example, with authors it’s, “Oh, I love reading their book.” It’s like, why read the book when you can write one? Why listen to a song when you can play one? And why do you think you can’t have your own concert or event? My biggest issue is when I’m at these things, I’m sitting here like, “Where do I walk up on stage at?” Because it’s like I’m used to it. The marching field, the stage for speaking, the orchestra shell hall, whatever you want to call it. And you know the feeling but you’ve been on both sides of it, and you like one more than the other, right? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [36:08]

Yeah. I mean, you’re making a great point. It’s not just the book. It’s not just a song. It’s not just a concert. It’s not just a keynote speech. It’s communication. Its meaning. It’s education. It’s transformation. Right? If you want it to be. But if you just think you’re hammering together a PowerPoint presentation so you can fill a 20 minute slot tomorrow, you got the wrong idea, I think. 

Mario Fachini [36:39]

I agree. I mean, if someone is asking for the tips and tricks and you say, “Google it.” It’s like, what should I put in my presentation? Just grab something from SlideShare and put your name on it. Like, if you don’t care, that’s all it’s going to be. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [36:53]

Isn’t that what we’re seeing and presentation after presentation as we’re seeing jokes that we email to everybody? We’re seeing they pull up a slide of a meme that I’ve been looking at for two years now. Somebody the other day said, “Have you seen this such and such video?” And the way they presented it to me, it was like it’s a very unique thing. And I couldn’t wait to go see it because it sounded like it was fresh and new. And I pulled it up and it was, “Oh, my gosh. The slowest moving thing. It was filled with pablum. You know, not an original bit of information in it. The title, I think, was unique. But you know, it’s incumbent upon us. I mean, somebody got to be the standard bearer. I gesture to myself when I say that. But you, too, everybody that’s listening to this, be a standard bearer, be original, create your own content, don’t just put forth stuff that you’ve heard from other people. And if you do put stuff forward from other people at least provide attribution. Mario, I’d like to have $1 for everybody that tells me, “I’d like to start with why.” Like, that Simon Sinek. I’m sure you don’t want to mention his name when you tell me you’re starting with a why. That’s his stuff you’re teaching. So we’ve got a lot to love to learn and a lot to change as we elevate the industry. 

Mario Fachini [38:22]

Yeah. It’s interesting. I think a little bit of that fear goes in there. Like I asked, you know, how did you just quit your job like that? There’s that fear of like, what if. I think there’s nothing worse than looking back 60 years later going, “I probably should have.” And I remember I was speaking on my birthday because I love serving people and speaking and I love what I do. I was speaking on my birthday and I was talking on the phone getting ready and everything. And it was when the Harlem Shake was out a couple years ago, and I was like, “Oh, my gosh. It would be so cool if I could get the room to.” And I was like, “I’m the speaker. I can do what I want. And even if I can’t, it’s my birthday so I could pull that card. So on the drive over, I was like, “How do I pull this off?” And I got the whole audience doing it. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [39:10]

Oh, good for you. 

Mario Fachini [39:12]

And that what that was not part of the speech, I assure you that going into it. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [39:16]

That’s interesting, too, you know, because so much of what we’re doing is being recorded now. It wasn’t the case when I got into the business. But now any clown can throw up an iPhone and record what’s happening. So you better be good. It’s like whatever you do is forever on the internet. So let’s up our game. Let’s get with it. We’re all – 

Mario Fachini [39:38]

Put your best foot forward. I’ve been telling people that since I wrote my book on Video Marketing and, especially since I started the show. I go, “I’ve treated this since before day one. I do the same prep as if I’m speaking to a thousand people.” And it’s like I don’t roll up in pajamas and slippers and just like, “Oh, hey. I’m here. Blah, blah, blah.” And it’s astonishing to me because if you were speaking to 1,000 or 10,000 people, everyone would be buttoned up, preparing the week before, all kinds of stuff. But when it comes down to, “Oh, it’s just online.” It’s like, yeah, there’s actually more people watching you here than are in that room. And it’s going to live forever. When the elections were going on, there was 1,000, 2,000, 3,000 people in an auditorium. Even if you have a large – like in downtown Detroit, Little Caesars Center, 20,000 people. Let’s say, it’s a concert, you max it out. There can still be 50,000 or 100,000 watching online, if not more. So I was somewhat going, “Maybe it should have a course on forget the stage. Here’s your real stage. Flip it around and reverse it.” Because I have videos from ten years ago when we met and they’re still out there and they’re still getting views and people are still seeing it. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [41:04]

For sure. 

Mario Fachini [41:06]

So we’re going to thank our sponsor. We’re going to go to the Imperfect Action Round. And I’ll bring you right back up. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [41:15]

Great. 

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Mario Fachini [42:17]

And we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. Michael, are you ready to take imperfect action? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [42:22]

I’m not sure actually. 

Mario Fachini [42:26]

Well, you’ve been doing this long enough. And you’re great at the improv.  It’s not a big deal. But I created this because, for years, I’ve taken my authors and entrepreneurs when we’re working one on one. And they’re like – you know, everyone has their head trash and that fear. And I always say, “You got to take imperfect action. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [42:45]

Yeah. Done is better than – 

Mario Fachini [42:48]

And that’s when I was designing the show flow, I go, “You know what? I want something that whether you listen in the beginning, the middle, the end, I want it action filled with stuff you can implement right now today.” And so I came up with these questions. And the first one is, what is the fastest path to the cash? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [43:08]

The bank. 

Mario Fachini [43:15]

For starting a new business, you just go to the bank and get money out of it. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [43:18]

Oh, you mean to generate money. Okay. 

Mario Fachini [43:21]

Yes.  What is the fastest path to generate the cash? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [43:24]

I think online coaching. 

Mario Fachini [43:28]

Okay.  Why is that? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [43:29]

Well, because you can — if you work quickly, you can actually promote and enroll clients before the course is even finished. If you’re going to wait for a [unintelligible [00:43:41] comparison and it’s an annual conference, you have to wait for all 12 months of the calendar to come around and then hope that the keynote speaker at the exact time that you called. But if you got an online program, you put it out there. You could even promote it on Facebook without a website. Say, “I’m starting a new online program. Message me if you’re interested.” I mean, that’s pretty fast money don’t you think? 

Mario Fachini [44:02]

I would agree 100 percent. And that kind of touches on what I was just saying about you have the world at your fingertips now with the internet. So let’s talk the profit difference. One keynote speech is worth how much would you say? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [44:21]

Well, people are at different levels of course. But if you’re speaking a national associations and not a household name, it would be fairly easy to get 10K if you got some gig. 

Mario Fachini [44:32]

So 10K one time a year. And I know there’s other events and this, that, the other thing. But for sake of apples to apples, you got 10 gran one time, which isn’t bad. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [44:41]

Yeah. 

Mario Fachini [44:44]

I know the answer. What do you believe you can do with an online course that you’re not limited to one time a year? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [44:51]

Yeah. It depends on if it’s a music course, you know, is it three classes, is it six weeks, is it half of the year, is it ongoing like a retainer scenario? You could easily get, I would think, 1,000 bucks for three sessions. And if you’re going to keep them for a while, you could get thousands of dollars. I always try to provide three times more value than what their paying. And I try to help them pay for the course before the course is finished. And it’s not the entire course. At least part of it. When I’m looking at my own business, Mario, I’m looking at four types of money, big money, small money, fast money, and slow money. So if I got a book that I’m selling for 20 bucks, it’s fast money but it’s small money. The keynote, which is 10K or could be 10K, is big money but it’s slow money because I have to wait for that conference to come around. And so if you’re in the business of speaking for money, you want to think about those four different types of money. 

Mario Fachini [46:02]

That’s a great point and it goes into, well, actually the third question. But the second question is, what is the biggest problem you’re seeing your prospect is making and the fastest way they can fix it? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [46:13]

Underestimating themselves and by getting their head straight of what they’re capable of, they very quickly move into action mode. When you’re playing by self-doubt or thinking that you’re not good enough or your presentations are not ready for primetime, it just forestalls everything going. You’re going into the rest of the development and that’s deadly. I mean, some people never come out of it. If your presentation is not ready this year, what makes you think it’s going to be ready next year? Well, it won’t be. So here we are getting ready to turn the calendar year and I’m just telling people, “Next year doesn’t have to be the same way, man. It can be so much better.” 

Mario Fachini [46:55]

That’s awesome. And it should be every year as far as I’m concerned. Number three, what is the – no. Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [47:07]

Customer lifetime value, so you kind of have repeat customers and keeping people with you and all that sort of thing. 

Mario Fachini [47:14]

Yes. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [47:15]

I think it’s delivering on your promises and doing what you say you’re going to do. I’ve been taken by so many people, especially marketing people, who promise me the moon. And I pay them a bajillion dollars and it just never materialized. And they have all kinds of excuses for this. They’re not bad people. Some of them oversold me. Some of them overestimated their own abilities. In some cases, I was even ad hoc to be fair. But I think you have to deliver undeniable value and you have to get them to tell you that it was undeniable value. It’s not that you go into bed every night saying, “Yeah. I did pretty good today” and lean back. You have to get your customers, even your unhappy customers, to tell you that you did everything that you could and more. That’s something. 

Mario Fachini [48:07]

Yeah. I heard that the litmus test isn’t what you can say about you but what others can say about you. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [48:12]

Yeah, 100 percent. And it’s just not your high flying happy customers. It’s the people that failed who then say to you, “You know what? You did everything you said you were going to do for me and more. It’s on me that this didn’t work.” That’s how you know you have a killer program. And these are the people that will come back and they’ll buy anything that you put together within reason. They’ll buy your books. They’ll give your referrals for keynotes. They’ll hire you for keynotes. They’ll sign up for your online program. They’ll be customers for life. What’s that old book, Customers for Life by Carl Sewell. It’s a great concept. 

Mario Fachini [48:52]

You must have looked at the question because I was just about to ask you what’s a good book that’s made a big difference in your life that you would recommend. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [49:01]

Well, there you go. 

Mario Fachini [49:04] 

Do you have any others? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [49:06]

A book for what? 

Mario Fachini [49:07]

Do you have any others in addition to that? 

Michael Angelo Caruso [49:09]

For speaking or just general success? 

Mario Fachini [49:11]

In general, books that have made an impact on your business. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [49:16]

You know, I like all of the Malcolm Gladwell books but not for the reason you might think. Though I like watching Malcolm Gladwell on video. He’s not known as a particularly – well, I’m sure he’s getting good coins for his speaking engagements. But I like him as a storyteller. And so if you read his most recent book which is Talking to Strangers or Tipping Point or David And Goliath, you just see how he really gets into the nap of the fabric of the story. And he comes from investigative journalism so he really understands how to turn the dirt over, as I say. So the gardening analogy is if you’re going to get rid of the weeds in your garden and you go out with a spade to dig the dirt up, you just can’t turn it over one time because the weeds are still showing up. It just goes sideways now and on angles. You have to turn that same dirt over again and chop it up. You turn it over again, you turn the spade the other way, you chop it up another way. It’s some slicing and dicing every square foot of earth in the garden. That’s how you work a garden. And when you do that, the oxygen comes into the garden and different organic things like to happen. The chemistry of the garden starts to cook a little bit. But most people don’t care to work the garden like that. And that’s what you have to do to cultivate a good presentation. 

Mario Fachini [50:43]

It’s reminding me of the Henry Ford quote where it’s like all the success you’re looking for is disguised as work. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [50:49]

Yeah. That’s right. 

Mario Fachini [50:52]

And if that’s not him, someone please correct me and we’ll update the show notes on the EAInterviews.com. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [50:55]

No. I like that. It’s something like most people don’t like to work because it’s dressed in overalls, like this. 

Mario Fachini [51:08]

But there’s a lot of people wearing those nowadays. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [51:12]

Yeah. Right. I read a great quote this morning that happiness, for most people, is not doing anything. It’s just sitting around. And that’s not – you’re never going to get better like that. You might be happy but you’re just sitting around. You’re not helping anybody. You’re not crashing into something. You’re not improving your presentations. So I find happiness. Everybody is different. But I find happiness in getting better in what I’m doing. I find happiness in helping people. And maybe that’s just where I am at this stage in life. But if you have – if we’re kindred spirits, that’s going to have a bigger –

Mario Fachini [51:54]

I agree.  Just doing something you want that can help others that you want to pursue, definitely more joy than just sitting around. And I’m going to challenge one thing about this because I’m curious what you think before we go to the last question. Do you think a lot of people say “I’d love to just sit around.” Because when you say, “What would you make you happy?” “I’d love to just relax and sit around.” Do you think that’s because the only lens they have of seeing stuff is through constant work in the antithesis of that is doing nothing. So that correlates as happiness to them because they haven’t dreamed in a while. Because I, actually, was thinking like, there’s so many cool things you could do. You know, 100 years isn’t enough to do them all in. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [52:41]

I think happiness, for a long time, has been equated with leisure. So I think [unintelligible [00:52:50] of just watching three football games in a row on Sunday somehow became a guy’s version of happiness. It’s never been my version of happiness. I like football. I just can’t do six hours of it or ten hours of it a day. Somebody asked, I’ve always marveled at Paul McCartney’s output. And I think about him as an artist. He has written children’s books. He had a pretty good career with the deals. He had a magnificent solo career afterward. He’s done work with The Fireman, another kind of music. And somebody asked him one time, “How do you get so much done?” And he said, “Well, I don’t watch T.V.”  And he spoke more about that. He said, “I’m always way behind in all the series and all of the hot shows.” He said, “I just started watching the Sopranos,” which has gone off the air ten years ago or 15 years ago. And so it’s a decision. Everyday, it’s a decision how do you want to spend your time. Just like when you’re crashing a presentation, how do you want to spend your time. Do you want to spend your time getting the fonts right on the PowerPoint and matching the color wheel – the color pallet for the theme of that conference. Or do you want to get [unintelligible [00:54:13] telling one story. 

Mario Fachini [54:15]

Hit that B (for black) and just throw something in there. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [54:19]

Yeah.

Mario Fachini [54:20]

No. That’s a really great point joking aside because there’s so many things where it’s like the perfectionists will kill you. You can – we’ll take my show. I can crank out 20 or 30 more episodes. When I was getting this off the ground, there was six weeks where I did, maybe, half of one. And actually, you know who it is. And I was just, like, so beyond frustrated. I’m like, “I’ve been doing this video production professionally since 2005, what the heck is going here?” And I’m just thinking of all the people I can reach and the cool guests and all kinds of staff.  And the second I got it working, I was like, “All right. Let’s go with this.” And I was flying. And it’s that whole failure and success thing. But at the same point it’s like, “No. I didn’t want to take that much time dealing with the buttons and the font,” if you will. But I also was like, “I don’t want to have it on an elementary level for the next five years.” So it’s like, how do you judge what you do? What’s the highest and best use of your time? And it’s like sometimes you just figure it out as you go. Make it up. Do that, improve, if you will. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [55:34]

And sometimes the market will tell you your quality needs to be better or you need to be faster. Or you’re not making any money. Just nobody is seeing your stock yet. 

Mario Fachini [55:44]

Yeah. Or maybe nothing is wrong and it’s all in your head. Just keep going. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [55:47]

[Unintelligible [00:55:47]. 

Mario Fachini [55:50]

Well, I have appreciated everything you’ve shared so far. And where can people learn more about you because I know you have a whole lot more to share. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [55:59] 

Well, the website is easy. It’s my name, MichaelAngeloCaruso.com. We’ve got a blog there that’s helpful. I also have a YouTube channel that’s doing pretty well. So you can – I know a lot of people [unintelligible [00:56:12]. Don’t think about it. Of course, you would go to my channel to find all my stuff. But if you were looking for a particular – help on a particular issue like, say, humor or sales or leadership, then just type four keywords into the YouTube search panel “Michael Angelo Caruso sales. Michael Angelo Caruso funny.” And then all of those associated videos will come up. You can quickly see which ones are two minutes, which ones are ten minutes, and fit it to your timeframe. So it’s a pretty cool place to go. 

Mario Fachini [56:46]

Excellent. Well, I appreciate you for sharing with us. And I hope you have a great night. 

Michael Angelo Caruso [56:52]

Mario, thank you very much. Thanks for all the good work that you do in helping people. 

Mario Fachini [56:57]

Well, thank you. I appreciate it. All right. Expert Authority World, we have another great episode here. I’ll see you tomorrow. Have a great day and God bless. 

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www.EAInterviews.com [57:37]

Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven’t done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.